New rig for Shandie

  • 14 Oct 2016 21:49
    Reply # 4306535 on 4304541
    Deleted user
    Arne Kverneland wrote:

    The magic hook on a stick

    Michael,

    here is the lazy old man’s way of picking up a mooring under sail:

    ·         Tie a 10mm (permanent) line to the post at the foredeck and bring it back to the cockpit, outside everything (pulpit, rails...)

    ·         Tie the cockpit end of the line to a big, nice carabine hook, set on the end of a one-meter long stick. You can actually buy such things, some of them very clever.

    ·         After the sailtrip, pick up the mooring by approaching slowly under sail, and then, as the mooring passes your cockpit, reach out a hand and clip on that hook-on-a-stick.

    ·         If you miss, go around and try again.

    ·         When you hear the lovely click from the carabine hook, shout “CONTACT!” and dump the sail immediately.

    From now on you have all the time in the world to sort out sheets and stuff in the cockpit while the boat settles less than a boatlength to the lee of the mooring. Then you can at your leisure   -  slowly, just to show off  -  walk forward, pull the boat up to the mooring and tie the permanent lines on. Finally you unclip the carabine hook and bring it back to its “permanent” position, a rope loop or something. There, next to the cockpit it is ready for next time.

    The clue with shorthanded sailing is to make arrangements so we don’t have to be on two places simultaneously. Fitting a JR is a long step in the right direction.

    Cheers, Arne


    Hello Arne, that sounds a good way to do it, if the mooring has a ring. Our local moorings all have a ringless buoy and an attached pick-up buoy with a fat handle. What I do now is forereach with the sail almost squared away, so I can control the speed and grab the pick-up as it passes by to windward. I then hook the line to a stern cleat and end up moored by the stern for a while! Looks silly but it works. Once the sail is stowed we can moor normally. I'll try adding your bow line and see how that improves things. Cheers, Mike
  • 13 Oct 2016 22:14
    Reply # 4304541 on 4304198
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    The magic hook on a stick

    Michael,

    here is the lazy old man’s way of picking up a mooring under sail:

    ·         Tie a 10mm (permanent) line to the post at the foredeck and bring it back to the cockpit, outside everything (pulpit, rails...)

    ·         Tie the cockpit end of the line to a big, nice carabine hook, set on the end of a one-meter long stick. You can actually buy such things, some of them very clever.

    ·         After the sailtrip, pick up the mooring by approaching slowly under sail, and then, as the mooring passes your cockpit, reach out a hand and clip on that hook-on-a-stick.

    ·         If you miss, go around and try again.

    ·         When you hear the lovely click from the carabine hook, shout “CONTACT!” and dump the sail immediately.

    From now on you have all the time in the world to sort out sheets and stuff in the cockpit while the boat settles less than a boatlength to the lee of the mooring. Then you can at your leisure   -  slowly, just to show off  -  walk forward, pull the boat up to the mooring and tie the permanent lines on. Finally you unclip the carabine hook and bring it back to its “permanent” position, a rope loop or something. There, next to the cockpit it is ready for next time.

    The clue with shorthanded sailing is to make arrangements so we don’t have to be on two places simultaneously. Fitting a JR is a long step in the right direction.

    Cheers, Arne


    Last modified: 13 Oct 2016 22:15 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 13 Oct 2016 21:49
    Reply # 4304510 on 4304198

    That's an interesting calculation Arne, the mast's weight as a % of the boat's displacement. 5% seems huge! I've been doodling with your Johanna sail at A/R 2.0 on Annie to find a mast position and her mast may be 150Kg but this is still only 2.3% of displacement which compared with your quite light boat is not too bad. Thanks!

    Pol.

  • 13 Oct 2016 19:48
    Reply # 4304347 on 4304198
    Deleted user

    Malena's first mast was way too heavy, and even the lower 70kg mast was over-size for offshore work, at 5.0%. Johanna did much better in a seaway, even with the mast well forward. The biggest problem as the wind picked up and the sail area went down, was the windage of the 25cm thick mast (1.6sqm)

    I have had this problem Arne, but in a Trimaran when not putting the headsail away! In my little JR Corribee there is no problem going to windward under 3 panels. However, picking up a mooring is almost impossible under sail due to the slow speed and mast windage. The origional junks seemed (from drawings and articals) to have a barn door rudder and a centreboard which was well forward (in front of the main mast) so the centre of lateral resistance could be trimmed. A luxury I don't have! So for several reasons, the mast should go as far back as possible. (Maybe SJR)

    Last modified: 13 Oct 2016 19:51 | Deleted user
  • 13 Oct 2016 19:12
    Reply # 4304308 on 4304198
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Michael

    no one likes a boat that pitches badly in a head sea. I have compared the weight of mast with the displacement of the boat on all my junks. The worst was the first junk mast on Malena, 9.7m long and of solid spruce. At around 80kg+ it added 5.7% to the boat's displacement. Later, by using hollow spruce masts, not so oversize, this ratio sank to 3.0% on my Johanna. On my present boat, the IF Ingeborg, I fitted a hybrid aluminium-spruce mast, weighing about 55kg, or about 2.6% of the boat.

    Malena's first mast was way too heavy, and even the lower 70kg mast was over-size for offshore work, at 5.0%. Johanna did much better in a seaway, even with the mast well forward. The biggest problem as the wind picked up and the sail area went down, was the windage of the 25cm thick mast (1.6sqm). Ingeborg's mast feels quite right, so the boat moves well in a seaway and points well, as well. I haven't tried her in "3-panel winds" yet, but I have very good hopes for her, from what I have seen so far.

    Conclusion: Your choice of material (and thus weight) for your rig will have big influence on pitching. If you manage to lay your hands on a fairly thin-walled  aluminium mast of sufficient section, the weight will easily creep below 2.5% of the displacement.

    Good enough, me thinks.

    Arne

    PS: Don't forget that a tall mast of x kilo adds more to the pitching than a short mast of x kilo. It is not just the position that counts.

    Last modified: 13 Oct 2016 19:24 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 13 Oct 2016 17:56
    Message # 4304198
    Deleted user
    Michael Moore wrote:This is very interesting to me as I want to convert my 28ft Twister 'Shandie' to JR. Pol and I have exchanged idea over the past year about converting and I have sailed my JRCorribee for around 90 hours and am now covinced that this is the way to go.

    Arne kindly made a drawing of one of his sails on a Twister, but I'd like to be more conservative in sail area than 48.7m square! The Twister sails very well on its 32.55m even though it may look undercanvassed being 4.44 ton. I also want to keep the mast as far from the bow as is possible. I shall keep a keen eye on 'A new rig for Annie'

    Mike

    Two suggestion Michael:

    1: Open a new topic, called "A new rig for Shandie". Your boat deserves a new thread.

    2: Decide alternative mast positions and present them here with the distance from the bow to the centre of mast position(s). The mast position have a big influence on what sail suits the boat best.

    Arne

    Thanks Arne, I think you are correct to suggest a new topic but I'm interested to see what others have to say  about this. I think the pitching problem of a slim hull (or fine bow section) suggests the mast be as far back as the sail design(s) allow, hense my interest in the suggestions for 'Annie'.   

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