Throat parrel without HK parrels???

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  • 26 Sep 2015 15:21
    Reply # 3546984 on 3533950
    Deleted user

    Okay, I was out for a baby sail today, just five panels up, though I could have carried another panel easily.  The THP was rigged from the throat, round the mast, through a block on batten two, and then down with one half-turn round the mast, to the block at the foot of the mast.  I also rigged 4mm dyneema HK parrels on panels 3, 4, 5, (from the top).  The sail set fine, and the HK parrels actually didn't seem to have much to do!  It all looked good to me.  In smooth water, with not too much wind, the boat sailed very well, and tacked in stately but certain manner.  Sailed off and back onto the mooring without any stress (on me) at all.  A brilliant rig, it seems to me ..... !  I guess I might put HK parrels on all the panels later: but the key to the matter seems to be an effective throat/batten two parrel.

  • 26 Sep 2015 11:35
    Reply # 3546574 on 3533950
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Iain,
    until last summer, I just lead the hauling end of the THP straight down from the block at batten 2 to the block sitting at sb. side of the mast. The line is lead inside the batten parrels, of course.

    Now, with this setup, it sometimes happened that this line caught the batten ends when hoisting sail, say one of five times. Therefore, I now pass the hauling end halfway around the mast, to bring it further aft. This has been described in this little write-up "Taming the THP"

    Arne

    PS: This summer I have had 18 outings in my present boat, Frøken Sørensen, and have not needed to clear up the THP a single time.

  • 25 Sep 2015 19:31
    Reply # 3545878 on 3533950
    Deleted user

    I have been studying the way the THP is rigged on Broremann ( in "peaking up the junk sail").  The rope goes from the throat of the yard, round the mast and through a block on the end of batten number two.  But where does it go them?  Directly to a block at the foot of the mast - OR - does it first take a turn round the mast before reaching the block at the foot of the mast?

  • 22 Sep 2015 21:54
    Reply # 3539345 on 3533950
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    My procedure of setting up the HK-parrels has always been to hoist the sail in light winds, and just stop and set up the HK parrel as soon as the actual panel is clear of the bundle. Then I hoist the next panel and repeat for that, etc. I don't touch the  YHP and THP before the sail has been hoisted, just before sheeting in the sail.

    While eyeballing the sail as I sail around, varying between upwind and downwind, I look out for creases. Then I may decide to tauten or slacken a HK parrel or two  -  or I may find that the THP-YHP-combination does the trick.

    Honestly, I spend very little time worrying about the HK-parrels after the first or second sail.

    Arne

  • 22 Sep 2015 19:38
    Reply # 3539123 on 3533950
    Deleted user

    Okay, at the weekend I will try a parrel connected to the throat, and rove through a block on the third batten from top.  I will also rig a 4mm dyneema HK parrel on panels three and four from top.  But what is the correct sequence for rigging the HK parrels, once I have hoisted enough sail to access the battens on either side of panels three and four?  Do I, first, take-up on the yard parrel and the throat parrel and, then, rig the HK parrels?  Is that the correct sequence of operations? 

  • 21 Sep 2015 22:02
    Reply # 3537327 on 3533950
    Deleted user

    Congratulations Iain on the success of your first sail. You may not totally get rid of creases in all conditions. I find with Footprints that although the sail may look perfect when to leeward of the mast (where the camber can full develop) when I come about with the sail to windward of the mast a diagonal crease will appear across at least one panel. I could get rid of this by cranking up more on the LHP but it doesn't seem to make any significant difference to performance of the sail, so the reason for a perfect setting sail is for aesthetics only. The only times I really strive for perfection is when I have an audience and it is a matter of pride that the sail look as beautiful as possible!

    Last modified: 22 Sep 2015 03:25 | Deleted user
  • 21 Sep 2015 21:51
    Reply # 3537319 on 3533950
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Iain,
    for some reason your experience does not surprise me
    ...

    I guess the combination of THP and YHP will do away with most of the diagonal creases, most of the time. However, you may find that the THP needs tweaking when you vary between upwind and downwind sailing (tauter THP upwind). This is where the HK parrels may come in and gently keep the creases away (98 – 99% of the time), as on my Johanna. If you decide to give the HK-parrels a try (Panel 3 and 4, from top should do), I suggest you use a line which does not stretch  -  what about 4mm Dyneema?

    Anyway, good luck!

    Arne

     

    Last modified: 21 Sep 2015 22:13 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 21 Sep 2015 19:40
    Reply # 3537073 on 3533950
    Deleted user

    Well, I attached a "full hoist" of tell-tales to the leech today, and went for my first sail in a breeze of between 6 and 10 knots true.  The boat goes upwind nicely, tacks well and helm balance is good.  I don't think there is any doubt that she is a more powerful sailing boat with this rig than the previous bermudan rig.  I can hoist the sail by hand, though I can also use one of the original sheet winches for the last two panels if I wish.  The rig slides away to nothing in moments, and batten stagger is fine.  Today, I tried a parrel at the throat and batten two.  There was still a bit of crease in parts of the sail.  Tomorrow, I will try a parrel at the throat and battens two and three.

  • 20 Sep 2015 12:15
    Reply # 3534535 on 3533950
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    It seems that the success of the throat hauling parrel (THP) alone, to replace the Hong Kong parrels, varies from boat to boat and rig to rig. I think that small differences in aspect ratio, mast rake and general sail planform (full fan style versus Hasler-McLeod style), and also sheeting angle, seem to affect the set of the sail.

    I, like Graham, still have the HK-parrels rigged, but they only play a secondary role after I learned more about the use of the combination of THP and YHP, and after moving the slingpoint of the halyard about 5% (of the yard’s length) aft of the middle.

    However, if one looks at old pictures of real junks from Hong Kong, it is easy to see that the HK parrels are taking high loads, bending the stout battens upwards, quite a bit. That is no problem, as long as the battens have been built to take the load.


    (click on it to enlarge) 

    Arne

     

    Last modified: 20 Sep 2015 17:23 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 20 Sep 2015 09:27
    Reply # 3534481 on 3534441
    Deleted user
    Iain Grigor wrote:

    Okay, at least for starters, I will try a combined throat-upper-luff parrel.  But how best to rig it?  Throat-batten two-batten three?  Or batten two-throat-batten three (as per Footprints)?


    You can probably try different combinations and see what works best. I do have issues with the block at the foot of the yard which sometimes twists the wrong way and then the parrel becomes twisted over itself making it harder to pull the parrel. But the nice thing about these rigs is that you can experiment and it doesn't cost any money to do so.
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