Getting the best from your sail

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  • 30 Jul 2014 11:07
    Reply # 3057061 on 3056306

    I think I need to do another windward run under full sail with the sheet eased and also with a panel or two reefed. I'm finding this very interesting.

  • 30 Jul 2014 09:28
    Reply # 3057044 on 3056306
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Gary and David Th.
    this is very interesting reading! It tells a lot about how important the character of the hull is for the total impression under sail.

    My present boat, Frøken Sørensen has wide beam, a sharp bow, long waterline (lwl=6.3m on loa of 6.5m, and beam= 2.4m), a simple flat cb, a huge perfectly streamlined rudder  -  and no ballast. The fact that her top speed is 5.1knots with a 2.3hp Honda, says something (rudder and cb fully down).

    I have found that she is the best boat to windward of all my boats, so far. The sail, with only 8% camber does not let me sheet it in much more than I used to with a flat sail (8% camber is moderate compared to that on many staysails).

    FS’ has a one-finger-light weather helm when sailing close-hauled and it lets me “feel my way” upwind. This summer’s sailing (27 outings so far) has shown that she can point higher than all boats (up to 7.5m)  that I have met. If the seastate allows, I now generally tack inside 90° on the compass. Her maximum  speed will then generally be between 4.5 and 4.8knots. That will only give a vmg of around 3.0knots, but after all, we are talking about a small boat of 21ft. Length counts a lot when going to windward.

    David points out that his boat is slower (upwind only?) with the mast to windward, on the supposedly “good tack”. This confirms my own feeling.
    I believe this can have two reasons: The parasitic drag of the mast to windward does more harm than the distorted camber one gets on the other tack. Another possible factor is that we may tend to over-sheet the sail on the “good tack”: On this tack, the battens of my sail, fly about 10cm away from the mast. This increases the total offset of the sail, so the sheeting point on deck may needs to be shifted further out than originally planned.

    On FS the sheeting point is far out  -  it was just an existing ring which I made use of. Last year I thought that its offset was too far, so I adjusted the sheet at each tack. This year I just leave the sheet as it is when tacking, and FS now picks up speed much better on the sb. tack. Whether we point higher on one tack than the other, I am not so sure any more. The thin aluminium mast must produce much less drag than the thicker wooden masts did.

    Finally, I don’t cant the sail when running before, but rely on FS’ superb rudder. My advice to anyone with a shallow rudder is to add endplates to its lower end.

    Cheers, Arne

     

    Last modified: 07 Aug 2014 10:06 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 30 Jul 2014 02:30
    Reply # 3056945 on 3056306
    Deleted user
    Gary Pick wrote:
     Later on a straight stretch of river we were tacking with an apparent wind angle of around 30 degrees and doing 6 knots with the sail sheeted just outboard of the rail. it was impressive but we were almost a rail under and strong weather helm...both hands on the tiller. Thinking back on it and taking note of a comment by Annie I am wondering if I would have been better to have eased the sheet. This would have reduced the rudder angle and the associated drag and also the angle of heel.

     


    Requiring two hands on the tiller going to windward on a boat the size of Redwing does sound to me like excessive weather helm caused by having far too much sail up for the conditions and the large amount of heel would seem to back this up. Even on Footprints going to windward with her large sail and tendency to develop weather helm we never need more than one hand on the tiller and if the tiller loads up more that is an indication that it is time to drop a panel. This will reduce the heel, lessen the weather helm and associated drag from the rudder being at an excessive angle and probably not result in much reduction of speed.

    As to how close to sheet the sail - there is real trial and error involved in this and learning the feel of the boat, at least when going to windward. David Tyler did tell me that a cambered sail needs to be sheeted closer inboard that a flat sail but on Footprints I find that if I have the sail sheeted too far inboard I certainly do loose drive. So the ideal sheeting angle on Footprints when going to windward would be with the sail sheeted somewhere just inside the rail. The one thing I do have problems with when going to windward is sheeting the sail to overcome the speed differential between the two tacks when I am in the wind range where the speed difference is noticed, and this can be up to .5 knot slower with the mast to windward in the 5 to 10 knot wind range. I have fitted tell tales to the leech of the sail on Footprints and they seem to help with determining the best sheeting position, that is with the tell tales streaming nicely aft.

    Sailing on a reach and downwind I have always found it best to sheet the sail as far out as possible so as to provide the maximum amount of drive and of course when going down wind you can carry a lot more sail than when going to windward. On Footprints the ability to cant the lower part of the sail across the mast helps to dramatically reduce the amount of weather helm but if the tiller starts to really load up I know I am carrying far too much sail.

     

    Last modified: 30 Jul 2014 02:33 | Deleted user
  • 30 Jul 2014 01:21
    Reply # 3056925 on 3056306
    Deleted user

    Much of that weather helm would be heeling helm, with the sail and CoE over the water its trying to round up the boat, which does do any good at all. So reefing at that point can be faster. 

  • 29 Jul 2014 22:10
    Reply # 3056806 on 3056306


    Ah yes, my sail is to Arne's pattern with 4 parallel panels and 3 triangular top panels. The panels have 8% camber.
  • 29 Jul 2014 13:32
    Reply # 3056428 on 3056306

    My assumption is:

    A small amount of weather helm means the rudder is contributing useful lift.  Too much and it is creating drag.

    So, reefing / letting out the sail should help.

    Anyway, Well Done (and do better next time!!)

    ps, worth mentioning that you have a cambered sail.

  • 29 Jul 2014 11:28
    Reply # 3056408 on 3056306

    I have 4 lines controlling the sail, the sheet, halyard, yard hauling parrel and the luff hauling parrel.I did have Hong Kong parrels but I removed them. With the YHP and LHP set up tight and a good breeze in the sail the wrinkles disappear. I've found with the sail hauled right in she will not come about but will fall off the wind. Easing the sheet till the sail is somewhere between say 10 and 20 degrees and she will round up.nicely.



  • 29 Jul 2014 05:32
    Message # 3056306

    Despite having been on the water for over a year and a half I am really only just starting to understand and enjoy the abilities of my sail, so....

    I took part in a friendly race with 4 other small yachts last Sunday. To start with on a run before the wind I was actually in the lead but I think I made the mistake of sitting in a bit close to a forested island and I dropped back. Later on a straight stretch of river we were tacking with an apparent wind angle of around 30 degrees and doing 6 knots with the sail sheeted just outboard of the rail. it was impressive but we were almost a rail under and strong weather helm...both hands on the tiller. Thinking back on it and taking note of a comment by Annie I am wondering if I would have been better to have eased the sheet. This would have reduced the rudder angle and the associated drag and also the angle of heel.

    All the other boats were BM rigs and from the comments from some they were quite surprised at just how well Redwing sailed, as was I.

    This thread is for discussion on what works on what angle of wind for sloop rigs. I have read the reports on the racing forum and that has been enlightening but I'd like to hear what works for you so that i and others may learn more.

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