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Sunbird fixed parrels - only one?

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  • 28 Aug 2014 08:09
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    Reply # 3088036 on 3045930
    Deleted user

    Hi Chris and Arne

    I face pretty much the same problem on WaterBear. It seems there is no battens parrels. I can't see it on the pictures Scot left me, there is no sign of it anywhere on battens or boom and the Sunbird manual I got from Scot only mention is an optional boom parrel with a fairlead on the mast (fairlead evidently missing on WaterBear's mast). So I feel a little worry reading the MacCavity thread. If I had to put parrels, what would be the better way to attach them to boom and battens, and what kind of rope should I use ?


    Antoine
  • 25 Aug 2014 14:23
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    Reply # 3084999 on 3048807
    Deleted user
    Arne Kverneland wrote:If you open my file with links to favourite topict here.

    http://goo.gl/69ogMi

    ..and look up the link to "Macavity's problems in  JRA NL 55",  you will understand more

    Arne 

    Arne

    My apologies, I seem to have missed this link while we were discussing this. thank you for providing it. I've now read the thread, and agree completely with your comments. While I have yet to experience any handling problems due to missing fixed batten parrels, I am well able to envisage them and am not happy about their absence - hence my e-mail to Robin.

    I remain unconvinced that they cannot be fitted without causing the hinges to reverse, and intend to fit them as soon as possible.

    I too find the ability to move the sail across the mast useful in certain conditions, so some experimentation may be necessary.
  • 21 Jul 2014 06:13
    Quote
    Reply # 3049396 on 3049157
    Anonymous member
    Chris Gallienne wrote:Does Passepatu have more than 5% camber in her battens, do you think?


    Oh lord, Chris, now you're asking.  I am only a simple sailor and hopeless about such technicalities.  The battens on Passepatu have multiple hinges and my feeling was that the sail had considerably more curvature than Fantail's, but it's hard to tell because of the different way the sails are made.  But when all's said and done, it's horses for courses; if your boat is sailing satisfactorily and your sail not misbehaving, then all is well :-)
  • 20 Jul 2014 17:17
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    Reply # 3049157 on 3047971
    Deleted user
    Annie Hill wrote:If you have read the recent magazine, you will see that I'm not really that impressed with Passepatu's battens for offshore use.

    Annie

    Yes, China Girl also has hinges even in the top batten. I'm not convinced this is a good idea, but the camber is only around 5% of chord, so while I'd like less than this towards the top, and probably none at all in the top batten, it's not too bad. She stood up well to a good F5 last weekend with full sail up, and while she occasionally dipped the rail before rounding up, I did not feel the need to reef.

    Does Passepatu have more than 5% camber in her battens, do you think?
  • 19 Jul 2014 10:05
    Quote
    Reply # 3048807 on 3045930
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Could it be the article on p. 8 in newsletter 55? 

    The problems of the rig was also discussed in a topic here. If you open my file with links to favourite topict here.

    ..and look up the link to "Macavity's problems in  JRA NL 55",  you will understand more

     

    Arne 

    Last modified: 23 Jun 2017 17:21 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 18 Jul 2014 09:23
    Quote
    Reply # 3048063 on 3045930
    Deleted user

    Annie - I believe you are right - as I said in response to an e-mail from Jonathan on this subject, it seems to me that losing fixed batten parrels is losing too much of the essence of the Chinese rig.

    My rig does reef without undue fuss, and sails pretty well, and I am quite happy with the hinged batten arrangement (whilst recognising that in a real blow, or during extended offshore cruising all this might change).

    My only reason for raising this here is that with the sail standing so well away from the mast on starboard tack she might not be sailing as well as she should. While the sail takes on a good shape and draws well, it is essentially 'set flying' and I'm sure that the luff must sag rather more than is conducive to optimum performance upwind.
  • 18 Jul 2014 05:18
    Quote
    Reply # 3047971 on 3047185
    Anonymous member
    Chris Gallienne wrote:Have had this response from Robin:

    "If you have jointed battens then fixed batten parrels are not used because when the sail goes onto starboard tack there is a good chance of the forward batten joint being broken, with the sail pulling away from the mast and the parrels pulling in the opposite direction."

    While I can see what Robin means, there are plenty of rigs with hinged battens which also use fixed parrels successfully (see Lex Hodgkinson's discussion of Passepatu's rig in JRA NL 50 for example). I shall experiment tentatively, with due regard to Robin's long experience, I think.
    Chris: if I had to choose between the security of batten parrels and the moot advantages of hinged battens, I would go for the batten parrels any day.  They are one of the things that make a junk sail easy to reef and a lug sail anything but.

    I could be wrong, but I rather think that it was this lack of parrels that gave the owners of McCavity so many challenges when they first had the boat.  I'm afraid I don't have access to all the magazines, having only downloaded some,  so can't find the one in question to check my memory.  This issue was either towards the end of the Fred Barter edited set or at the very beginning of the voluntarily-(again) edited ones.

    If you have read the recent magazine, you will see that I'm not really that impressed with Passepatu's battens for offshore use.
  • 16 Jul 2014 21:37
    Quote
    Reply # 3047185 on 3045930
    Deleted user
    Have had this response from Robin:

    "If you have jointed battens then fixed batten parrels are not used because when the sail goes onto starboard tack there is a good chance of the forward batten joint being broken, with the sail pulling away from the mast and the parrels pulling in the opposite direction."

    While I can see what Robin means, there are plenty of rigs with hinged battens which also use fixed parrels successfully (see Lex Hodgkinson's discussion of Passepatu's rig in JRA NL 50 for example). I shall experiment tentatively, with due regard to Robin's long experience, I think.
    Last modified: 16 Jul 2014 21:39 | Deleted user
  • 15 Jul 2014 22:36
    Quote
    Reply # 3046068 on 3045930
    Deleted user

    Arne

    Thanks for your input. I have upper and lower luff hauling parrel, and no fixed batten  parrels - as in this photograph.

    (This is not my sail but a similar Sunbird sail, of the same period).

    I use the luff parrels to pull the sail aft when sailing with the wind forward of the beam, and to allow more balance sailing downwind. I have no problem with the hinges reversing. However, on starboard tack, the sail stands well away from the mast, having no fixed parrels, except one on the boom - it is retained only by the parrels at the luff and sheets at the leech.

    I wonder why this type of Sunbird rig has no fixed parrels, and merely speculate that potential for hinge reversal when downwind, due to pull from a fixed parrel near the middle of the batten, may be the reason. Perhaps I should consult Robin Blain or Alan Boswell.

    Last modified: 15 Jul 2014 22:39 | Deleted user
  • 15 Jul 2014 21:52
    Quote
    Reply # 3046056 on 3045930
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

     

    Chris,
    somewhere back in the grey fog, I think I recall that to avoid s-bending my hinged battens in Malena (1991), I added a running throat parrel to haul the sail further aft. The existing luff hauling parrel (working on several battens) could thus be slackened and the hinges would flick the right way.  This was particularly useful in light winds, if memory serves me. Yes, now I looked up newsletter 24, p. 25. It seems that I was right. BTW, all the battens still had standing batten parrels.

    Arne
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