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Roger Taylor hinged panel

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  • 08 Jul 2014 15:46
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    Reply # 3040626 on 3018494
    Deleted user

    Not that I have aything useful to add on MingMing II's sail setup but I met Roger Taylor in Whitehills during a return trip on a friend's boat. Had a little chat with him but since he was busy preparing MingMing I didn't want to be too nosy :-)

    She looked a capable little boat, neat and tidy too!
  • 08 Jul 2014 03:42
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    Reply # 3040275 on 3018494
    Deleted user

    I tend to believe the stationary air in the holes theory since I've stood in the slot between jib and main of a bermudan. There's little to no wind there, on a windy day.
  • 07 Jul 2014 19:07
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    Reply # 3039988 on 3018494
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Apart from thinking that the holes at the batten hinges are very interesting, I don’t dare to produce any foggy ideas about their aerodynamic pros or cons.

    However, this could be relevant:

    • The Ming Ming II’s hull seems to be very well shaped and should be pretty close-winded and fast for her length.
    • Roger Taylor has given the junk sail real camber, and probably much more than on most junk-rigged boats in the area.

    These two factors will together produce a very good sailboat, with or without the help of clever holes in the sail.

     

    Cheers, Arne

     

    Last modified: 07 Jul 2014 19:08 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 07 Jul 2014 13:47
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    Reply # 3039154 on 3018494
    Anonymous member

    Not sure holes in a spinnaker is relevant, I assume they are to stabilse a DOWN WIND sail.  I cannot see that holes will benefit an up wind sail.

    (a parallel though - the holes in a trad junk rudder may be to stop it stalling so readily at high rudder angles?)

    Last modified: 07 Jul 2014 13:50 | Anonymous member
  • 07 Jul 2014 02:23
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    Reply # 3038961 on 3036367
    Deleted user
    Mark Millward wrote:

    My own view (fwiw) is that the small gaps will especially in light airs keep the sail pulling in a similar way to those spinnakers with holes in, no maths just gut feeling and some experience from my own rig in the past. I hope (don't we all?) that once Roger has tested his rig on a long trip  he will writ a detailed account of his sail building. You can't help but admire how beautifully his sail sets and pulls.

    Similar to my thinking, when air sets up laminar flow, any gaps or holes are filled in with stationary air and the sail operates as normal. It's the reason why a ragged junk rig, torn full of holes still draws.
  • 02 Jul 2014 10:24
    Quote
    Reply # 3036367 on 3018494
    Anonymous member

    My own view (fwiw) is that the small gaps will especially in light airs keep the sail pulling in a similar way to those spinnakers with holes in, no maths just gut feeling and some experience from my own rig in the past. I hope (don't we all?) that once Roger has tested his rig on a long trip  he will writ a detailed account of his sail building. You can't help but admire how beautifully his sail sets and pulls.
  • 26 Jun 2014 14:02
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    Reply # 3032012 on 3018494
    Anonymous member

    Love Roger's ideas,  though the gaps at the hinge would concern me, can it be improved? 

    I have uploaded a sketch to Technical Forum illustrations.

    Rather than sew the hinges to the edge of the panel, they are sewn with enough spare for the panel to reach the batten.  This would crease up which may not matter.  Alternatively, put a cut at each hinge, in the centre, covered by the hinge, with a 'tack' line the edge can be pulled in.  Once happy with the camber, the cuts could be sewn up.
  • 24 Jun 2014 19:51
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    Reply # 3028238 on 3018494
    Deleted user
    There is this conference Roger made, with a lot of very interesting details about the making of Mingming II:


    Roger Taylor's conference



  • 23 Jun 2014 14:07
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    Reply # 3021041 on 3018494
    Deleted user

    22 questions answered by Roger, General Forum on 13th February 2014 in case they are of interest.

     1497261 on 1471142
  • 23 Jun 2014 14:01
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    Reply # 3021029 on 3018494
    Deleted user

    Hi Ben and Phil,

    I admire Roger Taylor, his books, exploits and his conversion to Junk Rig of the Achilles 24 MingmingII.

    An excellent video by Roger on his sail construction is available on:

    www.thesimplesailor.com 

    click on 'video clip of the month' and then 'The making of MingmingII Part 6'

    He describes the hinges as being like 'piano hinges'.

    I think the luff /leeches are attached to battens with lashing, so each panel can be removed quite easily.

    He made the lower sail panels with no excess material (round) but instead made the actual hinges of different lengths so that camber was formed. This left the gaps, Roger is not sure if they have any effect,  good or bad, but the boat does go very well.

    They must create votices, which may add drag or alternatively help to keep flow attached; these and many other answers may one day be answered when JR is decided upon for the Americas Cup!

    There has been a post where it was suggested that the round could have been added to the panels during construction (By the Arne Methods)  so that the hinges could be shorter and of equal length to close the gaps.

    I think Roger has said that by using the Hinges it would enable him to easily adjust dimensions if required in the light of sea trials. It all worked so well and Roger made no subsequent camber alteration.

    He was due to trail MingMingII to Scotland, yesterday - June 22nd 2014 - and to depart to the Arctic around the end of the month.

    There is a post where Roger answered 22 questions about MingMIngII - i will look it up and post it here shortly.

    Best wishes


    Last modified: 23 Jun 2014 14:02 | Deleted user
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