Junk Jibs. Also looks at junk resale values

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  • 25 Sep 2013 20:42
    Reply # 1398103 on 1392279
    Mark, I've just had a look at your junk jib sketch, and as far as I can see it won't work very well, will catch its sheets around the boom (we try very hard to ensure positive stagger), and will have poor performance. I would have to ask "why bother?" when it would still need the handling of double sheets when you tack. You might as well stay will a furling headsail.

    The choice between mono and multihull is a personal one, and you're clearly a cat man. I am quite definitely not, for living aboard and long distance cruising, but that's your call. 

    But as regards the rig, there's only one of two ways forward. Believe that the junk rig is the best rig for cruising, as I do, then make the commitment and  build a well-tried version of it for your first attempt (mast in each hull, and a low aspect fan, for a cat); or don't believe it, and stick with the rig that the boat comes with. To do anything else is to fall between two stools. Save the experimenting for when you've got some JR miles behind you.
  • 24 Sep 2013 15:26
    Reply # 1397095 on 1392279
    Resale value:  thanks for comments.  Yes, it was just my presumption.  You see JR boats going at a very attractive price (almost tempting me away from a catamaran), but what I should consider is that the market is generally v poor and lots of BM boats also go for a song.  
    As with your comments, if it is a good one,  JR (or BM), there will be no trouble selling.  If someone wants what you have it is no problem.  More of a problem if there are too many similar, ie a buyers market.  Interestingly my Hirondelle (BM) cat sold very readily, although a very limited market. 
    My concern is that a JR cat is very much an unknown market, so however well done it could be a long time selling, should I find the one I buy is not for me long term.  If it was the one for long term, spending on a JR would not be a concern, money well spent for the pleasure given.  
    So, I guess the Junk Jib idea was something to play with whilst considering a full conversion.  Hey - it might even be a good thing, and BM cruising folk would be ditching there roller genoas!
    Anyway, enough of this, just watched the video of MingMing 2 sailing, what a cracker!
     
  • 22 Sep 2013 21:02
    Reply # 1395640 on 1392279
    Fitting a junk rig can be as expensive or cheap as you want it to be (relatively speaking) it all depends on how you go about it.

    As to the affect on resale value, it's very much depends on how well you do the job. A well done and professional looking conversion is unlikely to reduce the value of the boat. On the other hand, if the boat looks amateurish or shoddy, that will be reflected in the price the boat can command.

    Certainly, most junk rigged boats that I am aware of have sold with few problems and at about their market price.

    So if you do a good job of the conversion, you are unlikely to suffer a loss. You could also choice to keep the old rig and reconvert when you sell but I do not feel that is necessary.

    If the original rig is in good nick, it will probably sell for enough so as to be able to fund a fair proportion of your conversion. However, the ideal would be to find something that does not have a rig. Such a boat would generally be available at a steep discount against what the norm for her type would command.

  • 22 Sep 2013 19:33
    Reply # 1395604 on 1392279
    Deleted user
    Found an interesting photo of some traditional working junks with 'junk jibs' - posted in technical illustrations.
  • 22 Sep 2013 09:50
    Reply # 1395372 on 1392279
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

                                                                  Stavanger, Sunday

    So far I have sold two junk-rigged boats without problems. I have also been lucky enough to sell the original Bm masts and some sails, so about 1/3 of the costs of the new rig was covered that way.  Now that I make my own sails and even masts, the cost of a new rig has dropped.

    There may well be many people who would not own a junk-rigged boat, but on the other hand there will also be some who just fall in love with them and must have them. The trick is to take good pictures under sail and put them in the ad.

    However, it could be that it is easier to sell junk-rigged boats in Stavanger: All of the junks here (6) have big , cambered, powerful sails. These junks certainly suffer no reputation of being slow as there has never been a fleet of junks with flat sails here.

    Cheers, Arne

    Last modified: 22 Sep 2013 09:52 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 22 Sep 2013 06:57
    Reply # 1395337 on 1394156
    Mark Thomasson wrote:As we are all aware, a junk conversion is often a double whammy - not only costs plenty to fit,  but normally reduces the value of the boat. 


    Mark: I am not at all sure from where you get this conviction.  Fitting a junk rig does not need to be an expensive exercise (selling my old rig just about paid for the new one) and most certainly does not reduce the value of the boat.  Have you seen how quickly the boats advertised on our website tend to sell?  As you, and many others, are only too aware, there are not that many junk-rigged boats about and there are quite a few people who would like to have one.  Indeed, I suspect that a good junk-rigged boat could well be easier to sell than her bermudian rigged sister.
  • 20 Sep 2013 13:50
    Reply # 1394156 on 1392279

    The Junk Jib is in my humble view, has all the aspects of a junk.  Though, yes, it is still a pointy shape! (but we see a large variety of shapes already)  Although not shown, it would have standard junk sheeting, probably double.  The reefing is in the same manner as a junk.  It swings free, past 90deg.  It could even be rigged with the luff forward of the forestay.   Compared to the fore mast of a 3 mast junk it has some differences.  On the downside: it does not lean forward, so will not set without assistance  in light winds whilst running (but if the winds that light, a cruising chute  may be used),  it does not have so much area high up.  On the upside: it does reef down to a very useful storm jib, with a good up-wind shape.

    I have certainly not gone of Junks,  for a cruising sail, it is hard to improve, and with the latest developments, for fast cruising & club racing equally good.  As I said, the Junk Jib is a half way measure, before committing to a full conversion.  As we are all aware, a junk conversion is often a double whammy - not only costs plenty to fit,  but normally reduces the value of the boat. 

    Cheers Mark

  • 19 Sep 2013 18:09
    Reply # 1393465 on 1392279
    Deleted user
    Hi Mark

    I took a quick look at your junk jib a couple of evenings ago and couldn't really see how you could give it the label 'junk'. Wrong shape for starters. It's more of a fully battened standard jib, that you could build with or without camber.

    Sorry to hear that you've gone off junk. You don't really say why. Can understand you going off life on an incline. No reason to worry about junk cats though - there are plenty of them about these days, with tried and tested rigs, eg Bernard Fercot's Grand PHA - see his recent post. Peter Hill too of course. And take a look in Members' Area > Google Junks > Images for further inspiration.

    Last modified: 19 Sep 2013 18:14 | Deleted user
  • 19 Sep 2013 13:28
    Reply # 1393220 on 1392279

    & I thought the HT a bit heavy, especially with twin diesels most now have.

    John's boat has a fixed cockpit cover,  does not do much for the looks.  The more usual soft cabin tent looks ok.  It does add to the usable space, giving a break between living space and bedrooms.

    Sorry folks, gone a bit off - junk rig, but perhaps others may be thinking about going to two hulls (or I would say, not doing without one and adding a big lump of lead to compensate).  One thing sailing at Kipford brought home,  beautiful though Mallie and Bodger are, I would not wish to suffer all that leaning over stuff.

    Mark

  • 18 Sep 2013 17:13
    Reply # 1392427 on 1392279
    Deleted user
    I always thought they were a bit lightweight and too much like a caravan.

    Met a guy called John holloway in Audierne on my way round Britanny last month - he's been cruising southwestern Europe for the last 10 years or so in a Heavenly Twins - seems to have it well sorted and is very happy with it. Not junk rigged, though. I went aboard for a beer and was quite impressed with what he'd done with it.

    His blog: http://freyafrey.blogspot.co.uk/


    Last modified: 18 Sep 2013 17:13 | Deleted user
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