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Horrible Sail Set when Reefed - please help!

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  • 21 Aug 2013 01:40
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    Reply # 1370645 on 1358762
    Deleted user
    Yes, exactly.  And they go to a block on the mast head and thru an eye on the bottom of the boom.  I need to get a picture.  One  of those things we were not sure how to rig, but rigged it anyway and worked ok.
  • 11 Aug 2013 19:21
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    Reply # 1362918 on 1362690
    Deleted user
    John Cornicelli wrote:Heya Daniel,  We had a similar sitch, since our lazy jacks' spans run through each other like yours do.  What seemed to solve the problem was a boom lift forward of the mast which kept the fore end of the boom up and stopped the forward ends of the lazy jacks running through each other.  It was a kind of accidental discovery, since we just wanted to be able to brail up the foresail one panel for negotiating the channel, and ended up never doing that.
    Hi John, when you say '... a boom lift forward of the mast which kept the fore end of the boom up and stopped the forward ends of the lazy jacks running into each other' did you mean you've (1) effectively moved the 'mast lift' to the front end of the boom and (2) tied the ends of the lazy jacks together where the pass under the boom?
  • 11 Aug 2013 01:50
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    Reply # 1362690 on 1358762
    Deleted user
    Heya Daniel,  We had a similar sitch, since our lazy jacks' spans run through each other like yours do.  What seemed to solve the problem was a boom lift forward of the mast which kept the fore end of the boom up and stopped the forward ends of the lazy jacks running through each other.  It was a kind of accidental discovery, since we just wanted to be able to brail up the foresail one panel for negotiating the channel, and ended up never doing that. 

    Those sails are really stunning.  Must make a nice sight from shore.  Don't get shot at off Wallops Island if there is a launch
    Last modified: 11 Aug 2013 19:16 | Deleted user
  • 08 Aug 2013 05:04
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    Reply # 1361034 on 1358762
    Deleted user
    Brian,

    My lazy jack/topping lifts are running, but not to the cockpit.  I have them set up to the base of the mast on turning blocks in the future event that I want another four lines in the cockpit.  Right now, that is a distinct negative.

    However, adjusting them underway - isn't that something rarely if ever done except to put them in a slightly better "permanent" position?  Or do many of you tune/tweak them like you would other control lines, semi-constantly?

    Annie,

    Yes, those still look considerably better than my setup.  I'll have to play with it a bit further.  I've made a couple changes to how things run today.  I plan to depart for Mobjack Bay midday tomorrow if the weather forecast remains positive and I can get the mess of new provisions stowed in time to not miss the tide!

    Cheers,

     -- Daniel
  • 08 Aug 2013 04:50
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    Reply # 1361029 on 1358762
    Anonymous member
    Her rig certainly looks similar to Badger's  We did get a fair bit of twist in the sail, but nothing that I'd call horrible.  I've posted a couple of pics in the photo album for you to compare.  One with her original cotton sails, showing the foresail, the second with her second set of acrylic sails, showing the main.  Neither are terribly good, I'm afraid.  (Someone remind me to take them down again sometime).  Maybe the easiest solution - as long as it all seems to work - is just to get used to it!!!

    BTW Our lazy jacks terminated on the boom: to a cleat so they could be adjusted.
  • 07 Aug 2013 18:58
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    Reply # 1360692 on 1358762
    Deleted user
    Hi Daniel

    Paradox is a high aspect schooner rig too and I haven't added anti-twist, just conventional sheeting. Seems to work fine. Each side of the lazy jacks terminate under the boom and again work fine. On our previous boat - Sunbird 32 schooner - they slid beneath the boom and that worked fine too! You could maybe try splicing them together again...

      Look as if your lazyjacks are adjustable from the cockpit? I find adjustable gives a lot more flexibility, eg on a run you can tweak the boom up a bit if you feel the need, or even lift it to see something ahead...
    Last modified: 07 Aug 2013 19:09 | Deleted user
  • 07 Aug 2013 16:45
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    Reply # 1360586 on 1358762
    Deleted user
    It occurs to me to ask one question:

    Do the topping lifts "run" underneath the boom - e.g. are they allowed to slide or each each side port/starboard terminated at the boom eyelet to maintain length?

    I have mine terminated so as to keep the sides even.... perhaps if I let the topping lifts slide it will help reduce this?  I am not sure if that will make any difference at all.  Just a thought.
  • 07 Aug 2013 03:14
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    Reply # 1360239 on 1358762
    Deleted user
    Paul,

    One of the main reasons for my sheeting arrangement is the absolute lack of Dmin=2P on the foresail.  I barely have Dmin=1P, to be honest.  On the main, I have Dmin=1.5P or so. 
    Thus the other listed anti-twist sheeting arrangements just plain won't fit.  You have a similar high aspect schooner rig also and I'd like to know how yours are setup.

    Annie (again), I'd love your comments on how similar or different this is to Badger and what you'd recommend since you also had the very low D dimension on the foresail.

    Anyone else: if you have ideas, I'm all ears.  Thanks so much for the feedback and suggestions.
  • 07 Aug 2013 03:08
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    Reply # 1360234 on 1358762
    Deleted user
    Ah, sorry Annie.  I was going by a document I had which just had a rig sketch similar to mine and did not credit Pete for the rig design, just Benford.  My apologies!

    Here is a link to my rigging diagram for my boat:


    I can't find the Badger diagram I was given in times past - and note that it may not have been "Badger" per se, just a generic "Badger-line of ships" drawing, as well.  I'm unsure of its provenance, now that I think of it.

    Anyways, what does an "anti-twist" arrangement look like and what might make the most sense for these sails with these panels?

    The sails are quite high aspect (nearly 3:1) on my boat too...
    Last modified: 07 Aug 2013 18:54 | Deleted user
  • 07 Aug 2013 00:47
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    Reply # 1360153 on 1358762
    Anonymous member
    Benford did not design Badger's rig: it was designed entirely by Pete Hill using Jock McLeod's folios.  We did not install anti-twist blocks and with the high-aspect sails, it didn't seem to be an issue.

    On the other hand, I'm sure Fantail's sail wouldn't set as well without the anti-twist spans I use.  Certainly worth a try, Daniel
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