Luff optimisation

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  • 23 Aug 2024 20:55
    Reply # 13397210 on 13396998
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    David,
    My guess  is that the one who came closest to make a good and simple leading edge of the mast, was Frederik Ljungstrøm.
    I once made a poor man's version of it, and even if I could not rotate the mast to make full use of the Ljungstrøm effect, it was the best rig I have had on such a rowboat. One reason may be a total lack of parasitic drag components, like standing rigging, lazyjack, or even a halyard. The aft-leaning mast also appeared to reduce the heeling of the boat, but that may just have been a subjective feeling.


    Arne

    Last modified: 23 Aug 2024 20:57 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 23 Aug 2024 20:22
    Reply # 13397193 on 13396998

    So i got out my copy of C A Marchaj "Aero-Hydrodynamics of Sailing". On pp 601/602, he talks about wind tunnel tests on headfoils as used on headsails, which show a clear advantage over hanked-on headsails - Lift, drag, L/D, alpha-tolerance are all improved, to the point where racing rules have a handicap penalty applied to the larger headfoils, as they're just too unfairly effective. A headfoil with a t/c ratio of about 3:1 or 4:1 and as large as you can make it seems to give the best results (take that notion further, make the foil very large, and you end up with a wingmast with a single ply sail attached, which is pretty darned efficient). The puzzle is: how do we manage to get that advantage in a soft sail, as opposed to a headfoil of extruded aluminium?

  • 23 Aug 2024 16:57
    Reply # 13397124 on 13396998
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    David, I believe what you say about your advanced sail, but then you are over in the thick wingsail league, with the draggy mast safely hidden within the foil. This may well be good, but plays in another league when it comes to complexity of construction. You left that wingsail for a simpler version, didn't you?

    To make the comparison fair, it should in my view be done between single-ply sails (apples to apples).

    Btw. according to Graeme’s reports, his Splinter type SJR is not very alpha tolerant, which surprised me.

    Arne


  • 23 Aug 2024 16:19
    Reply # 13397106 on 13396998

    Arne wrote:

    When sailing in a seaway, I would rather have an alpha-tolerant sail...

    ... and that is exactly what you get with a radiussed luff, as I demonstrated with my wingsails. With a luff radius of around 2% of the chord, as most low speed airfoils have, Weaverbird's wingsail was much more alpha-tolerant and easier to keep in the groove, than Amiina's SJR, when we sailed alongside each other in Poole harbour. 

    I've said it before, and I'll say it again, adding webbing to the luff or leech is not good sailmaking practice. Tabling cut from the same cloth as the rest of the sail, with a doubler at the leech to add weight and slow down fluttering, is much, much better. It's possible that a very soft and large diameter boltrope might be added inside the luff tabling, but I've considered foam and thought that it wouldn't stack down very well. Sometimes foam is added to the luff of bermudan roller reefing headsails, to reduce bagginess when reefed, but it has to be very soft. Pipe insulation is too hard, I think. If you really must use webbing on a luff, at least double it over the edge of the cloth to give some rounding to it.


  • 23 Aug 2024 11:00
    Reply # 13397005 on 13396998
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Frankly, Paul,

    I think you are about to make life complicated for yourself now, and to no avail. I have seen this happen in the JRA world several times during the last 30 years. This endless strive for cutting drag  -  for perfection.

    One thing which surprised me when I test-sailed my first cambered panel sail in ‘94, was that I found it to be just as easy to make the leech telltales fly on both tacks. I had feared that the airflow would have separated more easily with the mast at the leeside. This attached airflow (shown by the telltales) clearly was the reason for my Malena’s jump in upwind performance over her first flat sail

    My theory now is that the rough, un-perfect leading edge (and surface of the sail) results in a rough airflow over both sides of the sail. This rough airflow on the leeside clearly re-attaches to the surface, probably more easily than a very smooth airflow. At least, that is a well-known reality in the aviation world. At some point, the wings of aeroplanes became so smooth and ‘perfect’ that they became prone to suddenly stalling at landing speed. Now, many of them have been retro-fitted with fixed vortex generators to the outer half of the wings, to delay stalls, and thus make them safer. Costs a little drag, but worth it.

    The not so perfect leading edge of a sail (any sail) with such a webbing boltrope will probably produce some drag, but as said, it also ensures attached airflow and thus the good lift/drag ratio. It doesn’t help cutting drag if you cut the lift even more. When sailing in a seaway, I would rather have an alpha-tolerant sail, than a perfectly smooth one as used when racing around the cans (under 100% concentration) on flat water.

    And then there is all the wind drag of the mast! Ha, careful now, my friend, or you’ll lose your night’s sleep ☺...

    Conclusion: Relax, lean back and enjoy your very good rig!

    Arne

    PS:
    I have not taken any photos up along the luff, as you have done on Ilvy. However, when looking at photos of my sails from the cockpit, the webbing at the luff appears to be flush with the sail.
    You can have a look at photo album 8, and see for yourself.


    (Malena on the 'bad ' tack, in 1994. Rough surfaces, but still efficient..)

    Last modified: 23 Aug 2024 12:19 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 23 Aug 2024 09:58
    Reply # 13397000 on 13396998
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    I sewed my luffs with a thin bolt rope (dyneema) inside a hem – almost exactly as you have drawn it, and for the same reason you are suggesting. And it works. Basically, I followed Slieve’s advice in doing that. It is a loose fitting hem (not tight like the bermudan one you drew, but also not with the intention of being as aerodynamic as the other (thick bolt rope) ones you drew. I just made a fairly strong hem, then threaded a dyneema bolt rope in afterwards.

    It  does give a nice, smooth, blunt entry to the foil, better than your heavily reinforced luff, I have to say. Because of the parrel-downhaul system it stays nice and straight too.

    However I am not certain if it makes a great deal of difference in performance. I feel that the luff is rather important, especially jib luffs on a SJR - but like you, I have no way of knowing. More importantly, my boat is only a light duty weekend sailer. I imagine a well-reinforced luff would be a lot more robust and might be the better option for an ocean cruiser, for example.

    Leeches are a different story.  I like a tabled leech. Paul Th does it beautifully. The camber is pretty flat at the leech anyway, so it’s what you want. Plus being robust. 

    It is a very interesting post. When I look at Paul Sch's advanced thick bolt rope and loose hem idea, I begin to wonder if he is secretly a racing sailer just pretending to be a cruiser to deceive us!

    I expect there will be some interesting and useful replies from the experienced sailmakers.



    Last modified: 24 Aug 2024 10:03 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 23 Aug 2024 09:42
    Message # 13396998

    Hi,

    One thing I observed very early after I finished my junk conversion on Ilvy, is the distorted shape of my sails luff. The webbing is about 50 mm wide, and its forward edge flaps over to lee. Have a look at these fotos:

    Obviously, this distorted leading edge is not leading the incoming flow in an optimal way into the sail. The lee-bend webbing will definitely induce eddies, which increase drag. How much drag, I can only guess with no testing facilities at hand. However, it is drag and thus bad. Have a look at the following sketch:

    I do not know how big the actual effect on sailing performance is, neither do I have the means at hand (by now) to test this with experiments. It might be substantial; it might be negligible. However, I think it’s worth understanding first, to then see if it could be improved by simple (!) means. Below, I try to find a simple solution to modify the luff edge.

    The profile shape and form of the sail close to the luff is very important to the performance of the sail (L/D, α-tolerance, etc…), thus windward performance and ease of sheet handling. In contrast, the trailing edge (leech) is of far, far less importance to sail performance. Slieve did a fantastic job explaining these aerodynamic fundamentals in his detailed “Some thoughts” document in an easily understandable way.

    Luff making for Ilvy

    For Ilvy, I mainly used Arne’s fantastic tutorials on how to fabricate a junk rig with barrel cut camber. One minor thing I changed was the way the webbing is attached to the sails edge. As I read Arne’s documents, he simply hems the canvas and sews the webbing on top. Fair enough, simple and straight. Now for Ilvy, the webbing color looked nice on the display of my laptop when I ordered it, but when I unpacked it I was close to throwing up. It was neon-yellow! Not good. It would totally destroy the fantastic yellow colour impression of Ilvy’s sail fabric. However, time was running and I wanted to start sailmaking instead of waiting for another order loop. Therefore, I enveloped the ugly looking webbing into the nice looking canvas. (Please don’t ask for the extra hours… ) Have a look at the following sketch.

    To verify, whether this altered webbing method is reason to my distorted luff, it would be great to get some feedback, including fotos if possible, on the shape of original “Arne’s luffs”. Is it also distorted like on my foto above?

     

    Optimizing the leading edge

    Let’s continue, assuming that my type of enveloping the luff webbing is not the reason for the distorted luff. What might be solutions for optimizing the leading edge shape?

    In the other thread, named “The mast balance of the JR”, Slieve described that his SJR is sewn with only thin boltrope at the luff (he listed different diameters from 3-6 mm lines). It is easy to imagine that a luff with such a reinforcement (sewn-in boltrope) would naturally produce a more optimal leading edge than the webbing type. Even more so, if the boltrope is not sewn “tightly” into the luff (like in bermudan sails) but loosely enveloped. This would create something close to the typical nose of airfoil profiles. To explain what I mean, have a look at the following:

    Looks good so far, but of course this “nose” would be way to small in comparison to the chord length to be of any effect. However, this loosely sewn-in boltrope is able to replace the luff webbing without any disadvantages: simple and fast to make, easy to mount, nothing new (has been used a lot in junks before), sufficient to take the loads. The load on the luff edge is minimal anyway – different to the leech edge!

    Hence, I derive my conclusion: when building Arne-sails, build the luff with loosely sewn-in boltrope instead of webbing! Keep the webbing type for the remaining three edges. This makes for aerodynamically nicer luffs without complicating the build in any ways.

     

    Outlook to further development

    That loosely sewn-in boltrope made me think… To increase the α-tolerance (widen the angle of attack of the sail profile, at which it does not stall but draws nicely), we would need a thick nose instead of the slim knife-like edge of a typical sail. The concept of the loosely sewn-in boltrope gives that thick nose, but only in a small scale. Too small in relation to chord length to be of any significant effect….

    But how about using a thicker boltrope? Or put something thick around the boltrope line, inside the enveloping canvas. Pipe insulation comes to my mind…

    It is made of flexible foam, thus wouldn’t mind bending when the panels are folded down into the lazys. One can buy it in different diameters, longitudinally slotted or unslotted, and for next to nothing. Put these, with the boltrope inside, into the vertical, loosely sewn luff pockets and you have a good nose shape with attached flow, upwash and the like.

    Worth a try?

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