When one reads of THPs and YHPs and running parrels and changing mast balance and the associated adjustments for windward or downwind sailing or reefing, in order to get the sail to set well, it seems the simple uncomplicated junk rig is no longer such a simple uncomplicated thing. 

Just thinking out loud.

Dave D.

I agree. One of the most appealing aspects of junk rig is its low tech, agricultural simplicity. Our present pursuit of gaining an additional 1/10th of a knot to windward is made possible thanks to high-tech, lightweight, durable materials that don't stretch out of shape like sails made out of rice sacks and bamboo spars. The beauty of junks is that boats with such primitive rigs perform almost as well and have performed the tasks they were built for, well enough, for many centuries. 

Following this interesting thread and noting that some junk sailors have had good success with higher mast balance, (ie, with more sail area forward of the mast than the traditional 10-12% of a full single panel sail) when using the traditional full single panel, (as per Hasler/McLeod and Arne's method) rather than the split panels of the SJR, it makes me wonder how effective would the SJR parrel system be on a traditional full single panel sail but with the lower yard angle used on the SJR.

As some non-SJR trad junk sails are now using up to 25% (?) forward of the mast, seemingly without ill effect,  could using the lower yard angle and the SJR type parrels, but with single panel construction, bring back simplicity of handling to the rig,  without the relatively minor additional complication of constructing the SJR jiblets.

Understanding of course that a lower yard angle requires a taller mast for a given sail area and that the single full panel sail with larger mast balance is probably not going to give the ultimate performance of the SJR (if that is an important factor in someone's considerations).

When one reads of THPs and YHPs and running parrels and changing mast balance and the associated adjustments for windward or downwind sailing or reefing, in order to get the sail to set well, it seems the simple uncomplicated junk rig is no longer such a simple uncomplicated thing. 

Just thinking out loud.

Dave D.

Arne wrote:

Paul Th wrote:You fail to see the point, which is that we got the sail to set without the Hong Kong parrales and the battens were adequent as they never gave trouble thereafter. Today I'd spec a heavier batten but those ones did the job and are still doing the job 11 years later.

Paul, who is (not) seeing the point?
I know that some of you (or you alone), eventually made Fantail’s sail set  -   wasn’t that with clever use of running parrels?

If you had paid a little more attention to how the Chinese sailors in Hong Kong had done it, probably for over 200years, you could have copied their way of doing it and have that sail setting well in a day or two.

Look at that photo of a HK schooner, taken by the Danish sailor and photographer Karsten Petersen in April 1974. The HK parrels are clearly hard at work, and the battens, even after having been beefed up, clearly take a lot of load. But the method works! That’s the point with these practical, Chinese junkrigmen  -  they made things work.

Arne

(See my member's Album, Photo section 6 for higher resolution...)

Arne, you are beating a dead horse. I'm just not interested in Hong Kong parrales. I've tried them, did not like the stress they induced and I've moved on. I've not found any need for them to date. It's always possible that I may encounter a situation where there may actually be a need for them but so far that has not happened.

Mauro wrote:

Hi Arne,

 I must admit that one of the reasons that drove me to build a sail with your method is that the high yard angle makes them extremely pleasant to look at!

Nevertheless, the main reason has been the detailed explanations coupled with an enormous amount of pictures of your writings. You did not only realized a method that is friendly to new sailmakers, you put it in on line in a well organized guide for neophytes…

That’s the main reason why I chose to make copy of one you beautiful sails…and it works damn good!!

Cheers and thanks again,

Mauro

Mauro, thanks for kind words.
I don't disagree with you about the high yard angle. I think I will still prefer the Johanna 70 (..or maybe 65...) version for smaller boats (sail below 25sqm, displacement less than 1.5 ton). This is because these sails give the biggest sail area and tallest sail on the shortest mast.

Bigger vessels have more stability, so can better carry the taller mast needed to set the sails with lower yard angles.

(..actually, these days I think the Johanna 65 version looks the best...)

Arne

Anonymous wrote:

Asmat wrote wrote:

Here's a significant advantage of split junk rigs. My Coromandel, "Emmelene" has a yard angle of 40° and about ⅓ mast balance. The sail simply hangs from the halyard, shaped by gravity. Apart from the sheet and halyard, the only running lines are 3 combined batten parrels/downauls. The yard is held to the mast by a fixed parrel and there is no need for a yard hauling parrel.

Good for you, Asmat, your SJR seems to fit perfectly to your boat.
My reasons for not ‘going SJR’ are these:

• ·         I aim for simplicity in making the sail. My write-ups about making the sails have been aimed on new-timers. Those who have already made a junksail, may well read and learn enough about the SJR to make these, if they want to.
• ·         With a SJR, one is stuck with a fixed mast balance, so there is little room for adjustments in case one doesn’t hit the bull’s eye first time.  On my range of sails, now with yard angles varying between 70 and 55°, the available mast balance between 12 and 30% should make it easy to find a place for the mast(s).
• ·         Finally, I’ve found that on a small boat with sail area below 25sqm, there is no real issue with handling the JR, whatever the mast balance and aspect ratio is. Hoisting and handling the 20sqm, low-balanced sail of my 6.5m Frøken Sørensen, was super easy, and she sailed very well on all legs  -  downwind much thanks to her very deep and balanced rudder.

Arne

Hi Arne,

 I must admit that one of the reasons that drove me to build a sail with your method is that the high yard angle makes them extremely pleasant to look at!

Nevertheless, the main reason has been the detailed explanations coupled with an enormous amount of pictures of your writings. You did not only realized a method that is friendly to new sailmakers, you put it in on line in a well organized guide for neophytes…

That’s the main reason why I chose to make copy of one you beautiful sails…and it works damn good!!

Cheers and thanks again,

Mauro