A bigger rudder on Coromandel Siskin

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  • 15 Aug 2024 07:31
    Reply # 13394060 on 13293343

    Not much sailing going on here this season: only about six outings with two sleepovers on Siskin. These outings were in windspeeds up to 25 knots / 4 - 5 Bft.

    Here are my findings;

    The steering is more powerful at lower speeds and as Siskin is more less the slowest boat on the lake this a good thing.

    Luffing tendencies are now far less of a problem and rudder/tiller angles are much smaller than they just to be.

    The horizontal trimtabs bite when heeling so the rudders effectiveness remains in those situations.

    A drawback of the trimtabs is that wave action at anchor seems to lift the rudder somewhat up and down making for an irritating noice - only noticeable when sleeping. But it could also be a point of wear eventually ofcourse.

    Big asset for me is that my favorite sheet to tiller up wind self steering works much better than it used to. And as I spend much time sailing up wind ( or so it seems ) for me this a good thing.

    Last modified: 15 Aug 2024 07:32 | Anonymous member
  • 02 May 2024 11:37
    Reply # 13351130 on 13293343

    Initial experience with the bigger rudder.

    Very short outing testing if motor workes properly etc.

    Feeling is that of a much bigger boat now.

    The rudder used to be all over the place, now it is far more solid feeling and it moves farr slower. This is no surprise of course as it is so much bigger and therefore has far more resistance.

    Next update when I finally get to do some sailing.

    Last modified: 02 May 2024 17:19 | Anonymous member
  • 08 Apr 2024 21:44
    Reply # 13340478 on 13293343

    Hi Asmat,

    The chainroller is not strong and really needs the strengthening you suggest. Richard broke his - description  in this blogpost;

    https://tammynorie.wordpress.com/2014/05/26/launch-weekend-part-2-yarmouth-to-lymington-via-newtown-creek/

    Best regards,

    Antoine


    Last modified: 09 Apr 2024 02:06 | Anonymous member
  • 08 Apr 2024 18:39
    Reply # 13340370 on 13339909
    Anonymous wrote:

    Hi Asmat,

    We'll see what the rudder- mod brings. I'll report back here.

    The mast was hinged. I found the construction in the mast flimsy and the mild steel slieve protecting the default hinge too heavy to actually use for going under bridges without waiting for them to open. Because those were the considerations for modifying the standard setup:

    • Strengthening a weakness;
    • Easy work on the masthead;
    • Avoid waiting for bridge / sleuce combination (in particular at Den Oever / Kornwerderzand)

    A fabricator made a more substantial hinge inside the mast and we found a lighter aluminium slieve which rests on a made to measure piece of pom which sits just above mast to cabin entry point. I re-enforced that point with six layers of bi-axle cloth + epoxy.

    I lower the mast once or twice a year but the slieve contraption requires attention every time I raise or lower the sail as the lines  drawing the buttons to the mast easily get caught and I need to pay attention when lowering the sail. These were no problems with the default flat cut heavy sail with the heavy buttons and the heavy wooden yard. A smaller (carbon?) sleeve might be better. Switching to slippery dyneema lines and low friction eyes fixed a lot of these problems.

    Another weird quick is that the sleeve is useable in summer but willl not move in winter - I am not making this up! So work on the top of the mast preferably on warm summer days next to the dock.

    In reality the mast is too heavy / I am not strong enough / the rig is too complex to use it for quickly lowering the mast on the water - something I did regularly on my Drascombe Gig.

     Siskin is too small / not set up for a real useful tabernacle and a mast in one piece. At least I don't see it. A tabernacle and a mast in one piece would be best.

    So all considered: a mixed blessing my mast slieve arrangement.

    Best regards,

    Antoine


    Hi Antoine,

    Thanks for your description of Siskin's mast hinge. Combined with Richard Brooksby's Tammy Norie blog, this is useful information. I have been wondering about the difficulty of walking the mast upward along a Coromandel's short cabin top and I'm not surprised you find it hard. I'll be 70 in a few weeks, so this is a significant matter! Perhaps a hinged strut with a 4 part tackle leading to the chain roller could make the job easier, as long as the chain roller is well secured below deck level. Rudolf uses such a system, and he has a carbon fibre mast.

    A kettle full of boiling water may help you to slide the sleeve in cold weather.

    Apologies for diverting off your rudder topic. I'd create a new mast hinge topic, but I don't know how to reply to your post under a new title.

    Asmat

  • 07 Apr 2024 02:58
    Reply # 13339909 on 13293343

    Hi Asmat,

    We'll see what the rudder- mod brings. I'll report back here.

    The mast was hinged. I found the construction in the mast flimsy and the mild steel slieve protecting the default hinge too heavy to actually use for going under bridges without waiting for them to open. Because those were the considerations for modifying the standard setup:

    • Strengthening a weakness;
    • Easy work on the masthead;
    • Avoid waiting for bridge / sleuce combination (in particular at Den Oever / Kornwerderzand)

    A fabricator made a more substantial hinge inside the mast and we found a lighter aluminium slieve which rests on a made to measure piece of pom which sits just above mast to cabin entry point. I re-enforced that point with six layers of bi-axle cloth + epoxy.

    I lower the mast once or twice a year but the slieve contraption requires attention every time I raise or lower the sail as the lines  drawing the buttons to the mast easily get caught and I need to pay attention when lowering the sail. These were no problems with the default flat cut heavy sail with the heavy buttons and the heavy wooden yard. A smaller (carbon?) sleeve might be better. Switching to slippery dyneema lines and low friction eyes fixed a lot of these problems.

    Another weird quick is that the sleeve is useable in summer but willl not move in winter - I am not making this up! So work on the top of the mast preferably on warm summer days next to the dock.

    In reality the mast is too heavy / I am not strong enough / the rig is too complex to use it for quickly lowering the mast on the water - something I did regularly on my Drascombe Gig.

     Siskin is too small / not set up for a real useful tabernacle and a mast in one piece. At least I don't see it. A tabernacle and a mast in one piece would be best.

    So all considered: a mixed blessing my mast slieve arrangement.

    Best regards,

    Antoine


    Last modified: 07 Apr 2024 06:37 | Anonymous member
  • 06 Apr 2024 10:05
    Reply # 13339728 on 13293343

    Antoine, I hope this end plate will give your helm more authority. Perhaps it will also act as an anti-pitching device, smoothing out the bumps in the IJsselmeer.

    I'm also interested to see a clear view of your mast hinge's sliding sleeve. Did Siskin already have a hinged mast, or did you modify it yourself?

    Asmat


  • 06 Apr 2024 08:21
    Reply # 13339722 on 13293343

    Goodmorning,

    Finished article installed.

    Back in the water next week.

    Best regards,

    Antoine

    2 files
  • 15 Mar 2024 13:15
    Reply # 13329942 on 13329690
    Anonymous wrote:

    Good luck Antoine

    I hope you have had some sailing time with the original rudder before making this one, so you can assess any changes in behaviour.
    My armchair guess is that your new rudder will perform quite a bit better.

    Cheers,
    Arne


    Or fit an end plate to one side only, to let Antoine compare the difference between tacks?
  • 14 Mar 2024 23:16
    Reply # 13329762 on 13293343

    About 8 years, this will be my 9th season on Siskin.


  • 14 Mar 2024 21:07
    Reply # 13329690 on 13293343
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Good luck Antoine

    I hope you have had some sailing time with the original rudder before making this one, so you can assess any changes in behaviour.
    My armchair guess is that your new rudder will perform quite a bit better.

    Cheers,
    Arne


    Last modified: 14 Mar 2024 21:07 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
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