Why try for a light mast (stability, mast weight and rolling)

  • 03 Jul 2013 12:36
    Reply # 1332326 on 1332270
    Deleted user
    Pete Rasmussen wrote:..
    Here's a link to Michael Kasten's great article on stability...http://www.kastenmarine.com/beam_vs_ballast.htm
    Nice article, like his Vahalla design..
  • 03 Jul 2013 10:56
    Reply # 1332270 on 1313268
    Deleted user
    Hi Annie, Thats kool, Apparently the old Clipper Skippers used to haul weight aloft when the sea was rough after a storm to stop the rig from disintegrating.  This is fascinating stuff and seems counter intuitive but so very useful I wonder why its not taught.  It may be part of the reason Junk Rigged yachts are so user friendly.

    Here's a link to Michael Kasten's great article on stability...http://www.kastenmarine.com/beam_vs_ballast.htm
  • 03 Jul 2013 03:27
    Reply # 1332036 on 1313268
    Conor O'Brien hoisted an anchor aloft on Saoirse, on his circumnavigation and reported a great - and improved - difference in motion.
  • 03 Jul 2013 00:15
    Reply # 1331936 on 1313268
    Deleted user
    And the weight aloft has softened the motion nicely.  Remarkable difference.  Slows the motion which is much safer and much more comfortable.  I'll try a bit more and see what the effect is.  Interesting stuff.
  • 25 Jun 2013 08:23
    Reply # 1326363 on 1313268
    Deleted user
    Thanks Brian.
    I've just hauled 20 kg of lead along the inner forestay by the staysail halyard to see what effect this has on the yachts motion.  Definitely a hard hat area now!!
  • 11 Jun 2013 23:06
    Reply # 1315019 on 1314987
    Deleted user
    Pete Rasmussen wrote: Maybe I should have chosen "Stability" as my subject

    It's already in the title, Pete - I just put it there.
  • 11 Jun 2013 22:01
    Reply # 1314987 on 1313268
    Deleted user
     Maybe I should have chosen "Stability" as my subject Kurt.  Once knocked down with the mast in the water maybe we are in the hands of the Gods. Will it fill with water?  Will it break?  
    Still better not to get knocked down in the first place.  According to the above mentioned tank tests a wave around 35% of the hull length can turn her over if beam on to the seas.  a heavier mast may just make it slightly less likely to get rolled but I doubt its a really significant thing but just going in the right way, so to say.
    The effect of weight on the motion will be the most significant effect that will be lived with day in day out and that's what I'm excited about most.  
    I've already spent a lot of time getting the old girl up to speed and she's still my ideal type so if I can cure her of the uncomfortable motion it would be a real boon.  When I bought her I remember saying to the seller "   slow but comfortable this type" and he said "not too slow" and avoided the comfortable element and I see why now.  She can get an attrocious motion in a short steep beam sea, even at anchor.  Not a comfortable yacht at all.  I'm thinking she was designed with a solid timber mast and someone thought to make her more sporty and modern with an aluminium mast.
    I changed the halyards from 12mm to 8mm line and we could feel the difference so I think a bit more weight will be felt quite markedly.

  • 11 Jun 2013 19:36
    Reply # 1314863 on 1313268
    Good discussion...

    Interesting how the starting point was the weight of a mast, and now we're throwing around several other factors involved in a boat's motion and righting tendency, like reality does.

    I'd never mean to contradict Marchaj's physics. I said 'stability' when I should have said 'righting moment.' 

    The point is:

    If you add weight to the mast to increase the inertia in roll, (slow the roll rate) which will give an anti-capsize advantage, you'd better make very sure you have enough ballast to keep the simple righting moment up to a safe value, for that day when the wave (or broach or gust) patiently succeeds in rolling the boat way over. Slow on the way down means slow on the way up...

    I added several hundred kilograms of lead to our keel, and shortened our masts from original. The effects all added up are a 4.2 second roll and quite upright sailing. But the boat was already okay. I might have made things worse if she'd come to us with bad habits in the first place.

    Good luck!

    Cheers,
    Kurt
  • 11 Jun 2013 05:42
    Reply # 1314292 on 1313268
    Pete, I have a mast that I designed for another project that did not come off.

    Dia at partners 245mm, wall 4mm, bury 2 300mm, LAP 18 000, Dia at masthead 100mm, 16 sided and it's hot dipped galvanized.

    It's longer than you need and was originally going to be a mast for a large gaff cutter. It could easily be cut down and would weigh in at around 300kgs once that is done.

    It's more than strong enough for you. I'd stay away from stainless for masts. It has the same fatigue problems as aluminum plus other of it's own.


    BTW I just looked up the design, being originally for a gaff rig, the lower part is parrel sided and only the top 6 620mm is tapered. That could work well for you, you'd have a parrel sided length of about 4 000mm and then the tapered section of 6 620. The bury is also tapered from dia, 245 at the partners to dia 150 mm at the base.


    If you are interested, please contact me directly and we can work something out.

    Last modified: 11 Jun 2013 06:21 | Anonymous member
  • 11 Jun 2013 05:22
    Reply # 1314284 on 1313268
    Deleted user
    From the top of my head...LAP 10 metres  Bury 2.2 metres

    Just found this.... Shedule 10  316 stainless 200mm diameter
    ..........................3.76 mm wall thickness
    ..........................243.48kg at 12 metres long
    ..........................$ 1680 plus gst


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