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Junkettes, batten attachment, sail position relative to mast (formerly' Luff Hauling Confusion)'

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  • 21 May 2013 21:52
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    Reply # 1298360 on 1248061
    Deleted user
    Hi Jim. Robert may well be sailling; I'm sure he'll be back online soon. I've done a quick trawl of the site and can't find anything about the fittings that interest you, sorry. You could try emailing Jim direct - click on his name to the left of his last post then locate his email address in his profile. Or just search the membership list. Cheers, Brian.
    Last modified: 21 May 2013 21:53 | Deleted user
  • 21 May 2013 06:03
    Quote
    Reply # 1297556 on 1259733
    Deleted user
    Robert Tracy wrote:      Hello Jim ,  my hinge type fittings for yard and boom were home made stainless  steel  T shaped 4 inches by two inches with hingtype barrels , giving horizontal movement , the yard and boom was finished in a single bolt , giving virtical movement hence universal .       I read once that old chinese sailers carried a bolt of fabric so if one panell blew out they lashed the two panells together , then cut a strip off the bolt or roll and stiched the new panell in when possible .   I once sailed a gaf riged dingy and thought it would be a good idea to get controll of the wasted power between the yard and the boom , hence junket rig      A self tacking jib might match the set , all the best . 

    Robert;  Hope you are still out there on the forum. Thanks for adding info to this thread; do you have any pictures of these fittings? I would like to see them with a scale reference. Could you perhaps also quote the sail area these are supporting? Anyone else with knowledge of these or a URL reference to these fittings?
  • 04 Apr 2013 16:57
    Quote
    Reply # 1259733 on 1248061
    Anonymous member
          Hello Jim ,  my hinge type fittings for yard and boom were home made stainless  steel  T shaped 4 inches by two inches with hingtype barrels , giving horizontal movement , the yard and boom was finished in a single bolt , giving virtical movement hence universal .       I read once that old chinese sailers carried a bolt of fabric so if one panell blew out they lashed the two panells together , then cut a strip off the bolt or roll and stiched the new panell in when possible .   I once sailed a gaf riged dingy and thought it would be a good idea to get controll of the wasted power between the yard and the boom , hence junket rig      A self tacking jib might match the set , all the best . 
  • 02 Apr 2013 05:26
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    Reply # 1256812 on 1248061
    Deleted user
    Well, thanks all for the interesting comments. I just found the 'junkette' article in the JRA newsletter December 2009. Guess I should have read that first.  The fact of easy maintenance by making the sail modular (or panelized) is what I am after and also easy to sail for the wife and I is the competing desire. Off to further reading ..
  • 26 Mar 2013 22:46
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    Reply # 1252434 on 1248061
    Deleted user
    The tracks are not all that heavy - I'll figure that out when I get back to the boat (April 2), just for interest. A plus is that individual panels makes for easier repairs ashore.
  • 26 Mar 2013 22:24
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    Reply # 1252421 on 1252189
    Anonymous member
    Brian Kerslake wrote:So lash the battens together at each end and then heave the panel in or out.

    Sorry, Brian, this still wouldn't work.  The upper batten would have to be at almost exactly the correct distance from the lower one for this to work, because the only way the panel could be put in would be doing the two battens at the same time. Believe me, it's hard enough doing one at a time.

    Better still just lash the battens together and sail on.
    So why bother with the extra complexity and weight (the luff grooves on either side of the batten add up to quite a lot of kg) of the separate panels in the first place?

    But lashing them on, as Jim is contemplating, might well be successful.
    Last modified: 26 Mar 2013 22:26 | Anonymous member
  • 26 Mar 2013 19:31
    Quote
    Reply # 1252300 on 1248061
    Deleted user

    That's it!  And, although this would seem to me to be slightly blasphemous in this forum, a schooner it is with a natty old jib out front. This way I can focus on the other things to improve and not worry about getting it all together and finding it just won't tack in light air. Further, a nice new roller jib would be keen but I'd sure like to be able to fit a sock over it to protect from UV when not in use.

    I anticipate to have the sail panels laced onto the over and under battens relative to that panel, and use a slightly longer bolt rope to extend slightly beyond the edge of the corners and be able to be affixed to the ends of the battens in order to position the sail and take the baggies out. As others have said, i believe this would require the above and below battens to be lashed together for / aft about the spacign of the panel in order to keep the overall sail together. Standing bolt ropes?

     

     
  • 26 Mar 2013 17:35
    Quote
    Reply # 1252189 on 1251588
    Deleted user
    Annie Hill wrote:
    Brian Kerslake wrote: The only one I can foresee, which was I think pointed out by Kurt Ulmer, is the potential difficulty on a long cruise of withdrawing a panel at sea for repairs that you couldn't do on deck. It can be a two person job on a pontoon. Could perhaps be designed out though by breaking the tracks at the middle of the battens to give some gripping and tugging space.

    Having been in putting the separate panels onto Aphrodite's battens, I can assure you that the operation would be impossible to carry out at sea.  It's not that you have to slide the sail panel through, so much as you have to keep the top and bottom battens in place.  Starting from scratch, you at least have one fixed batten and one moving.  Trying to take out a panel from the middle of the sail would be a nightmare, and putting one back even worse.
    So lash the battens together at each end and then heave the panel in or out. Better still just lash the battens together and sail on. Done that before now. No different to a sail made with batten pockets or with battens lashed on. Ming Ming sailed 2000 miles like that. As Roger Taylor said, "another example of the flexibility of the junk rig."
    Last modified: 26 Mar 2013 17:37 | Deleted user
  • 26 Mar 2013 01:33
    Quote
    Reply # 1251747 on 1251588
    Anonymous member
    Annie Hill wrote:At the risk of sounding tediously pedantic, the average twin-masted junk is a periauger rig, not a schooner.  That is to say that the foremast is very well forward or in the eyes of the boat.  I have a feeling that Jim is thinking of buying a standard schooner, ie one designed to have at least one jib: in this case the masts - certainly the foremast - are unlikely to be in the right place.
    Pedantic? Toi? Perish the thought :-)
    Yes, a periauger is a two-masted vessel without headsails, but how do you distinguish between the fore mast being higher than the after mast, or vice versa, if not by using the words 'schooner' and 'ketch'? Tricky.

    And yes, Jim is talking about a schooner, not a periauger.
  • 25 Mar 2013 23:41
    Quote
    Reply # 1251658 on 1248061
    Deleted user
    I think the last time I looked at Sea Elf she was rigged as a schooner!  ;)
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