Seablossom's diesel troubles

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  • 29 Jan 2013 04:23
    Reply # 1192034 on 1167011
    I sympathise with you Jeff.  I have to say that after my latest round of work on Fantail I am less convinced that building a boat is folly!  I have had to rebuild the water tank (last refit) because the previous owner took the top off, (I'm not sure how), which is the cabin sole and then discovered that it was quite impossible to screw it back down again, because there's only about 3 inches of space between the cabinetry and the sole.  I should like to get rid of the compressor-driven fridge, but would need to take a wrecking bar to the galley to do so and the compressor itself is hidden behind lockers and is totally inaccessible.  All the wiring is hidden behind glued-up joinery.  A previous owner has put a hatch into the cockpit sole in order to be able to screw down a bit more grease in the stuffing box. I could go on.

    I would certainly recommend making your hatch, but would also back up your other friends who say forget about the engine for the moment and enjoy the sailmaking.

    PS, I don't know how I'd remove my diesel tank, either.

    PPS My old Bukh was a very reluctant starter, but since paying a small fortune to have it sorted, I've followed the engineer's advice, running it for 1/4 hour every day and changing its oil once a year whether it needs it or not.  It's been totally reliable since then.  Touch wood.

  • 23 Jan 2013 19:02
    Reply # 1187079 on 1167011
    P/S Jeff  -7 ;  forget it till Spring , do something else ,save your money . .
  • 23 Jan 2013 18:43
    Reply # 1187058 on 1186400
    Deleted user
    David Tyler wrote:
    Ketil Greve wrote:

    Hi Jeff,

    . In my wharfbuild X-99, I sit and scratch my head trying to find a way of taking the dieseltank out for cleaning. It has been sitting there for 28 years, and there must be a good layer of sludge waiting to be beaten loose in bad weather, blocking the filters when you need the engine most. 

    Ketil

    Ketil,
    Can you access the top of the tank directly above the lowest point? I have no access hatch (in my plywood/glass/epoxy tank, which doesn't generate much sludge because there is no great amount of temperature change). Instead, I have put in a deck filler above the lowest point. I can inspect with a torch, and could use a hand-pump with a hose on the bottom to take out any water and sludge. In fact, I never have to do that, because I use a foot-pump to transfer diesel up to a small translucent plastic header tank, where again, I could see sludge build-up, and it would be easy to take it out and clean it. If there were any sludge build-up.
    Hi Ketil. I have a leaking 235 litre diesel tank with baffles. It is to starboard of a water tank. Both are under the battery box which is under the nav. seat. Pete Hill may have found that Freedom furniture is screwed to the grp/balsa/grp hull, but there's no way I'm going to tackle that. Luckily we have room under the aft double berth to fit a separate tiny tank as a replacement. Love David's idea of a header tank ...  what vitamin pills is he on?
    Last modified: 23 Jan 2013 19:45 | Deleted user
  • 23 Jan 2013 18:43
    Reply # 1187057 on 1167011
    Jeff  a good dollop of amnisia is handy when working on boats forget the past look to the future that is , work wise not teck wise .      I got two d, tanks one each side, my return goes to a t, valve two sides always open , so I can shift fuel from one tank to another when the engine is running , and yes I have over filled one tank once.   I use plastic tanks to cut down condensation the warm return helps to cut that out , plus tanks with seams always seem to leak .  I used hydraulic rubber pipes for my fuel lines, they bend any way you like and are nearly bomb proof , but a little bit costly .    Having said that if you are looking for something simple buy a 25 litre clear fuel container take the top of and stick the three pipes in , the draw pipe near the bottom and the return near the top, get a big cork ,cut three slots for the pipes not forgetting the breather pipe and jam it in the hole , but d,nt forget to strap the tank on well , being clear you can see how much fuel you have left .     Annie,s  Idea is a good idea as well .   All the best in your trials . 
  • 23 Jan 2013 18:36
    Reply # 1187043 on 1186342
    Deleted user
    Jeff McFadden wrote:
    There is a company that custom makes fuel bladders. Send them the dimensions of your existing tank and they'll make a bladder that fits inside it, but it's not likely that I could even accomplish that without taking the engine out.  It is not clear that I will live that long.
    Hi Jeff. The original tank may have baffles. That could make the job even more difficult.
  • 23 Jan 2013 02:48
    Reply # 1186400 on 1186067
    Ketil Greve wrote:

    Hi Jeff,

    . In my wharfbuild X-99, I sit and scratch my head trying to find a way of taking the dieseltank out for cleaning. It has been sitting there for 28 years, and there must be a good layer of sludge waiting to be beaten loose in bad weather, blocking the filters when you need the engine most. 

    Ketil

    Ketil,
    Can you access the top of the tank directly above the lowest point? I have no access hatch (in my plywood/glass/epoxy tank, which doesn't generate much sludge because there is no great amount of temperature change). Instead, I have put in a deck filler above the lowest point. I can inspect with a torch, and could use a hand-pump with a hose on the bottom to take out any water and sludge. In fact, I never have to do that, because I use a foot-pump to transfer diesel up to a small translucent plastic header tank, where again, I could see sludge build-up, and it would be easy to take it out and clean it. If there were any sludge build-up.
  • 23 Jan 2013 01:56
    Reply # 1186342 on 1186067
    Deleted user
    Ketil Greve wrote:

    Hi Jeff,

    Funny how renown boatbuilders can do things. When I built Edmond Dantes, I was carefully making things accessible and easy to replace because sooner or later things will need service. In my wharfbuild X-99, I sit and scratch my head trying to find a way of taking the dieseltank out for cleaning. It has been sitting there for 28 years, and there must be a good layer of sludge waiting to be beaten loose in bad weather, blocking the filters when you need the engine most. It seems I will have to remove the chart table and drawers. In the most elegant way to make things, no screwheads are to be seen, but hidden away in the most awkward places. The same goes for the watertank, but that has a manhole for cleaning. Cutting a hole in the cockpit to get to the engine, should have been done by the manufacturers, they know an engine dont last forever.

    Ketil

    You've got that right.  Try this one: in order to take the fuel tank out of Seablossom the very first step will have to be taking the engine out.  Not gonna happen.  After that it's fiberglassed into place.  If I ever do take it out, with the engine out through the not-yet-existent hatch in the cockpit floor, I'll probably take the tank out in pieces and make a new one out of plywood, fiberglass, and epoxy.  Or maybe not, who knows.  It's too big to print on a 3D printer.
    There is a company that custom makes fuel bladders. Send them the dimensions of your existing tank and they'll make a bladder that fits inside it, but it's not likely that I could even accomplish that without taking the engine out.  It is not clear that I will live that long.
  • 22 Jan 2013 19:19
    Reply # 1186067 on 1167011

    Hi Jeff,

    Funny how renown boatbuilders can do things. When I built Edmond Dantes, I was carefully making things accessible and easy to replace because sooner or later things will need service. In my wharfbuild X-99, I sit and scratch my head trying to find a way of taking the dieseltank out for cleaning. It has been sitting there for 28 years, and there must be a good layer of sludge waiting to be beaten loose in bad weather, blocking the filters when you need the engine most. It seems I will have to remove the chart table and drawers. In the most elegant way to make things, no screwheads are to be seen, but hidden away in the most awkward places. The same goes for the watertank, but that has a manhole for cleaning. Cutting a hole in the cockpit to get to the engine, should have been done by the manufacturers, they know an engine dont last forever.

    Ketil

  • 22 Jan 2013 17:10
    Reply # 1185932 on 1167011
    Deleted user
    Well, as it happens I won't be buying that used Yanmar.  In the YouTube video the guy was crank starting it, and fortunately I thought to ask him if it could be retrofitted for electric start.  Nope: no ring gear on the flywheel.  Cancel that plan.
    He asked if he should offer me the electric start 15 hp one he has, and I asked him how much, but I don't see me going that direction.  I could, if I chose, get a Beta (made from a Kubota engine) with the same mounting footprint as my Yanmar for just over six grand, but... but.... it's just too much.  I can't swing that much.
    Regards diesels in general, my Dodge pickup that I pull Seablossom with is a 5.9 liter 6 cylinder Cummins diesel, fast glow plugs and two monster 12 volt batteries.  I know they're monsters because I had to replace them this winter, and lifting them over the fenders was almost more than I could accomplish with my damaged right shoulder.  Our smaller tractor is a Yanmar 3-cylinder diesel.  I speak diesel.  My biggest issue with this engine is not really the engine, it's really the access to it.  I'm certain that I'm going to cut out the cockpit deck and turn it into a giant access hatch for engine work, almost certainly before I attempt any more service on this engine.  Even if it were running, the electrical wiring for the house wiring et al is buried from view on the starboard side about halfway back.  I can lay on my side in a quarter berth from the aft cabin and reach it with either hand, but never with both hands.  It's ridiculous.

  • 22 Jan 2013 07:41
    Reply # 1185569 on 1167011
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

                                                                     Stavanger, Tuesday

    Jeff, I suggest you leave your engine as it is until spring, with temperatures at least above +5°C. Without any cold-start devices fitted (glow plug etc) you simply cannot expect the thing to start at such low temperatures. In warmer weather the battery will be more powerful and the engine oil less stiff so the starter will spin the engine much faster. Don’t begin any work on lifting it out until you have failed to start it in warmer weather. It may well be that it is all right, head gasket and all. If you wonder if the engine gets diesel, just have someone observe the exhaust while you are cranking the engine with the starter. Thick white smoke is good.

    In the later years, diesel engines have become very popular in use in ordinary cars in my country. To make them start in the cold seasons, the manufacturers have provided them with bigger batteries, very good glow-plugs ( less than 5 seconds) and one uses synthetic engine oil which keeps an almost constant viscosity over a wide range of temperatures. Even the diesel is different (thinner) for the winter season in really cold areas. On such places the cars are also fitted with electric engine heaters (connected to the AC over night). This  ensures an easy start and that the cabin gets nice and warm quickly.

    Stavanger BTW, sitting next to the sea, enjoys the central heating from the Gulf Stream so -7°C is cold for us as well (we are there right now).

    Good luck

    Arne

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