MARIE G (cambered panels) - Ketil Grieve - Norway

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  • 29 Oct 2015 16:09
    Reply # 3606125 on 1267378

    Take a look at and Much to read, but very little about the actual way of measuring boat and rig. Marie G is an X-99 With a well known hull and rig. X-99 owners complain that sailing up to the New handicap is very difficult, hence many boats not being raced/ for sale. I dont know for sure, but I Guess the sail area being less than the standard bermuda, no spinnaker + single sail as the amerikan cat boats, made up the handicap for Marie G. I have simulated the handicap in different races, and found a 10% difference in sailing time for a given distance. That is about right, given a triangular racecourse With beating, reaching and running. With a back and forth racetrac, Marie G is suffering from too much beating against the Wind. Interestingly, the Catboat class i California, has to compeat With spinnaker boats. They dont get an extra handicap for not using a spinnaker. That tells me something. 

    The only way to find improvements is to have 2 boats of the same hull, and starting to match them and change crew/ helmsman. Given a fast sewing machine and same sailareal, should be the best way to find the best configuration for the sail. Problem is, we are only talking about plus/minus 10% witch is interesting while racing, but not when cruising or having a good day out sailing.


  • 29 Oct 2015 07:56
    Reply # 3605506 on 1267378
    Deleted user

    Hei Ketil,

    Very interesting. Where can I find more about the Nor Rating System.?

    Does not sound at all like the systems used in UK, at least as I understand them. 

    Though that is not saying much

  • 28 Oct 2015 14:55
    Reply # 3604212 on 1267378

    Hi Edward,

    I cannot complain about my handicap, it seems to be spot on. It took some time to get it, and the Nor Rating system in use at present is a Mathematical system. The NOR Rating system even incorporates different Wind forces, and is an adopted system from the international sailing confederation, same system that is in use in GB. 

  • 27 Oct 2015 22:22
    Reply # 3603039 on 1267378
    Deleted user

    Congratulations Ketil, you are an example to us all.

    Still curious as to how the handicapping works in your races.  With a 4 sided sail

    we seem to get penalised v. the Bermudans, and even more so if they are using their spinakers, which roughly double their sail area.

    It seems impossible to have a fair handicapping system, or one that is not heavily biaised towards the Bermudan rigs.

    Fair winds, Edward

  • 26 Oct 2015 20:49
    Reply # 3601240 on 1267378
    Anonymous member (Administrator)


    Sounds like the Marie. G rudder is on the small side. Getting caught in irons like that is not fun.


  • 26 Oct 2015 16:51
    Reply # 3600780 on 1267378

    Thanks Annie,

    I have been collecting "silver"ware for a long time in motorsports, so a few more from sailing is no problem. My wifes choise of house is on the large side, so sulking is not a problem. In bad cases I have Marie G and a small motorhome called Fia.

    You ask the most difficult question Arne. Yes, the sail is an improvement, but it also have some drawbacks. Improvement on reaching and running, sometimes when beating, but I need to find out more before making any adjustments. It appears to be better in light Wind than in a blow. The problem is reefing early and reducing enough sail. In Bergen I ended up With 3 panels before getting the right speed. I could wish for more sail in front of the mast, as in winds more than 14m/sek, I have problems With getting "the Lady" going after a stop when reefing. Boat and sail just weathercocks and refuses to go. A good safety factor, but annoying spending time persuading the girl to lift the skirts and run. The yard angle would have to be altered to get more sail fore the mast. I am not concerned about the Balance, there seems to be a huge "window" built into the sail, probably a factor of the aspectratio.

    Sebastian handed the sail to me With the Words: Here you are. I would not have built it like this. Question: How would you have built it Sebastian? I am very tempted to find out, but have to consult the bank. Problem is I am too bloody old. I am probably worn out before the sail, so I better find out as much as I can while I can. I know the sail can be more efficient than the setup I have today: creases, sheeting, camber, yard angle. Help!




  • 25 Oct 2015 22:50
    Reply # 3599665 on 1267378
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    To me the new sail, made from light cloth at Sebastian Hentschel’s Tuchwerkstatt in Greifswald, appears to have been an improvement. That saildesign was based on one of my master sails (AR=2.0) and simply  expanded to a batten length, B=5920mm (SA=54.8m2).
    What do you think, Ketil?

    ( to enlarge...)

    Last modified: 26 Oct 2015 08:07 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 25 Oct 2015 20:14
    Reply # 3599540 on 1267378
    Good on you, Ketil.  You sound to have had a fine season, and to have shown the pointy rigs a clean pair of heels on more than a few occasions.  It must be getting difficult to find a place for all the cups!
  • 25 Oct 2015 14:44
    Reply # 3599297 on 1267378

    Update of the 2015th season:

    The first race of the year, the 10th and 11th of May, Marie G split 2 Blocks in the top of the mast. The sail came crshing Down without too much drama, but the race was over.

    The Stord singlehand race on May the 16th, turned out far better With a good 2nd Place The race was a headwind out and a tailwind back, not ideally for the Junkrig, but 4th overall from 10 boats is not bad.

    Around Stord was a middle of the road 5th Place, 4 boats in front and 5 boats behind.

    Ryfylke rundt was a headwind only affair, Lastplace by 20 Seconds after 50 NM. Funny how the Wind died and changed to headwind.

    The Rica Maritim on the 7th and 8th of July, Marie G took first Places in light Wind. Friday Was a headwind sail in the Karmsund. Much turbulence at the narrow parts of the sound where the Junkrig exelled, made it an easy passage compared to the Bermuda brigade. The race on saturday was a lightwind event With the Wind 40 degrees from port out, and a wonderful reach home. 1st Place With almost an hour to og on the second boat.

    Next race was Bergen singlehanded. 61boats on the starting list, the weatherforecast so bad that 12 boats did not start. 49 singlehanders at the start in windy conditiones,made me quite prudent. I got off the line in the following Wind in 46th Place. I very soon started passing boats, few of them dared putting up their spinnakers in 14 sek/m (28 knots) Wind. The Wind got up to 16 sek/m, and I had to take a panel Down not to round up into the Wind. Aproaching the rounding mark, the Wind eased of to 10 sek/m, and a few spinnakers appeared. Marie G rounded as the 5th boat With a very happy captain. The smile on my face was not to last, the Wind picked up again, and the beat back to the finishingline became a very wet struggle. The Wind got up to 17sek/m With steep Waves. Marie G crashing into the Waves With 3 panels up, doing 5-6 knots flying and 3 knots crashing. I was not happy. I got to the finishing line in 11 Place in my class With 19 boats behind me. 14 boats of theese did not finish the race. I thought about going for Stord and shelter, but having made a reservation for the award dinner, and motoring was no option, I kept struggeling to the finish.  I did not collect an award, but sailed home, 97 NM in 13 hours, the Next day.

    The shorthanded weekend, the 26 and 27th of September was a weekend With little Wind. Headwind out, and "draft" from behind back. My engine decided to take a holiday on the way to the startingline on saturday,so I was doomed to sail no matter. With only 2 boats singlehandling, I got 2nd Place on saturday, last boat finishing. I had to sail the boat to the pontoon. In the light Wind, that was no sweat. The Next day,I had to hitch a tow to get to the startline, but got stuck in a windhole watching the others sail away. Marie G was waiting for Wind but I got off, 25 minutes late. The draft from behind was less than 1m/sek. Spinnakers was no use, they would not set, so the Whole fleet was becalmed when Marie G drifted to Catch up. The"wind" was on and off, but I managed to keep going and got to the finish in 8th Place from 15 boats. The resultsheet showed 3 Points to both singlehandlers,but MarieG got 1st Place as the added time gave her a 27seconds lead to the other boat. The other boat was a J 109, well sailed. I had to sail Marie G into her berth. A New experience that went well.

    The Windjammer race on Stord, was a windless afair With a DNF. The season ended as it started: DNF.

    There is a race in Karmsundet, the adventseilas, the 29th of Nowember. I have upgraded my sailing gear With a Helly Hansen wet suit, Ægir. Visiting my daughter in Oslo, I dived into the main HH shop and asked if they had the Ægir suit in Stock. I was so impressed that I bought it.       

  • 26 May 2015 09:10
    Reply # 3355877 on 1267378
    Anonymous member (Administrator)


    It is not that difficult to add a boltrope to the luff or leech in case the webbing boltrope stretches too much. I did that to Johanna's leech (on the "backside" of the sail), with the sail still rigged.

    I suggest you buy some 4-6mm Dyneema line and some small sailmaker's needles. If we find a calm day, I can give you a hand with stitching the boltrope on. It should not take more than 2-3 hours on each edge.


    PS: In 2008 I described my stretched-leech problems in Johanna in this little photo write-up.

    Last modified: 27 May 2015 11:48 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
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