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Pioneer 23

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  • 22 Feb 2012 01:32
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    Reply # 831922 on 818287
    Anonymous member
    Eventides are great and wholesome little ships, but a lot of water has passed under a lot of keels since they were built.  Without wishing to sound too cynical, one of the reasons for their vast popularity is that the plans were cheap.  Incredible, but true: while the plans are but a tiny proportion of the overall cost of a boat, many aspiring boatbuilders refuse to spend much money on them, and go for the cheapest they can find, assuming they can't photocopy the lines from a book.

    I suspect that Benford's wee dory could be a fine little ship, but would strongly suggest you look at John Wellsford's Swaggie  (sorry, don't know how to do the clever 'here; bit):
    http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/swaggie/index.htm

    Now she is a bit on the small side, perhaps, but she's a real little ship and designed to sail off the S Coast of Oz - by no means an hospitable lump of water.  John is a great guy and would no doubt be interested to discuss this and/or some of his other inspirational and intriguing designs.  He speaks the same language as most of us.
  • 14 Feb 2012 14:20
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    Reply # 825123 on 818287
    Anonymous member

    Jonathan

    Many thanks for your input.  I have had contact with the Eventide group before.  I borrowed 'Eric the Red' from the JRA library while I was in the UK. After reading it I considered building a Mouette for a weekend cruiser in the UK, and Eventide have the plans.  But things change and I ended up here in China.  I will look at the Eventide and contact John Williams.  I also thoroughly enjoyed the log of 'Borerbee', which i found easily on the net. 

    Peter
  • 13 Feb 2012 10:53
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    Reply # 823832 on 818287
    Anonymous member

    From memory, one of the early Eventides was built in I think Singapore and sailed home to England by I think a naval officer returning from a posting.   These and all other Maurice Griffiths designs are available free from the Eventide Owners' Group.  (As opposed to the Eventide Owners' Association, but that is another long story!)  They were designed to be suitable for home construction in marine plywood, although a number of early ones were yard built in wood.  Eventides are regularly made at 24 and 26 feet long.  John Williams of www.eventides.org.uk would be pleased to tell you anything and everything about Maurice Griffiths and his designs.  Tell him that I sent you to him!  You would get lots of encouragement and support from the group.  (If you look at the web site, you may wish to look at Newsletter No 9 and click on Athaena, which we restored, to see what a 26 foot MG can look like.)  jds

     

    Afternote.  The memory still works!  She was Borer Bee, Eventide No 8.  You will easily find information about her on the web.  She, like most Eventides and Golden Hinds etc, was bermudan rigged but a number of them have been junk rigged either at build or as later modification. 

    Last modified: 13 Feb 2012 13:15 | Anonymous member
  • 13 Feb 2012 04:56
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    Reply # 823672 on 818287
    Anonymous member
    There is only one Selway Fisher boat of this size that I can think of that was junk rigged - the 25'5" Shanghai. She was shoal draught, and, not, I think, the kind of thing you're looking for.
    The Selway Fisher Simplicity 24' would be closer, but I don'think either of them measure up to the Benford 26', for sailing from China to Europe.
  • 12 Feb 2012 03:12
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    Reply # 822942 on 818287
    Anonymous member
    Well, then, I'd say that the Pioneer is too small a boat, in displacement and carrying capacity. The Benford 26' is actually a very large and capacious boat at that length. The interior layout would have to be somewhat different from that in VOASI, to accommodate the mast. I would put a good settee berth on the stbd side, the galley to port, and the heads forward. Fantail's rig, enlarged a bit, would do nicely.
  • 12 Feb 2012 02:39
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    Reply # 822929 on 818287
    Anonymous member

    David, thanks for your input.  I am of course aware of the Benford sailing dories, and I have discussed a junk rig on the 26', with him. 

    Greenland is most deifnatley not on the agenda..... too cold!  But I do intend to return from China to Europe, so she's got be capable a boat.  
  • 11 Feb 2012 16:11
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    Reply # 822626 on 818287
    Anonymous member
    Peter,
    Sorry, I don't know anything about the Selway Fisher Pioneer, but his designs are generally good.
    One boat that would fulfil your criteria is the smallest of the Jay Benford dories, at 26ft. He says of it "This boat is capable of doing the same sort of voyaging that "Badger" does". Well, I don't think I'd take it to Greenland,but it looks OK as a coastal cruiser.
  • 11 Feb 2012 13:08
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    Reply # 822545 on 818287
    Anonymous member

    Just to add to my first post............  I am looking at the Pioneer 23 because of simplicity and cost, but the lack of information is a concern.  I am not trying to be a pioneer (excuse the pun) much happier with tried and tested. I want to build rather than buy, mainly due to location.   I'm in China and there are not many yachts for sale around here!! I thought that I might tap into the wealth of experience among my fellow members. I would be very interested to hear of any other suggestions for a design.   

    Criteria:

    Inexpensive

    Simple

    Offshore capable

    No bigger than 26'

    Junk rigged or suitable for conversion

    Wood/GRP (I'm happy working in these materials)

    Thanks in advance

    Peter

    Last modified: 11 Feb 2012 13:10 | Anonymous member
  • 07 Feb 2012 15:04
    Quote
    Reply # 818306 on 818287
    Deleted user
    Peter, I've just searched our list of member's boats and found 3 'Pioneers', but these are all 'Newbridge' Pioneers. I'm sure David Tyler, who runs the website, will have more info, and of course any other members who see your post.  There's lots of people and info here to help.
    Last modified: 07 Feb 2012 15:08 | Deleted user
  • 07 Feb 2012 14:34
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    Message # 818287
    Anonymous member

    Dear All

    I am interested in the Pioneer 23 as designed by Selway Fisher.  The design uses a junk and I thought there may be some knowledge of the boat here.  I have contacted the designer, he informs me that at least one boat has been built.  He has no photo's.  I'm trying to track down the owner of this boat to hear his/her impressions of her.  Do you own a pioneer 23, or do you know the person to whom I am referring?  All help gratefully received.

    Regards

    Peter
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