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Dead diesel. Electric?

  • 24 Sep 2011 08:05
    Quote
    Reply # 707363 on 706393
    Anonymous member

    Sorry - Yachting and Boating World Forums - Practical Boat Owner -UK yachting magazine probably not available in Far Flung Places!  The Great God Google will oblige. D
  • 24 Sep 2011 02:59
    Quote
    Reply # 707262 on 707214
    Anonymous member
    Jeff McFadden wrote:
    George Revilla wrote:
    Jeff McFadden wrote:Well, the 30 yr. old Yanmar is dead. My choices as far as I can see are rebuild, replace with diesel, or replace with electric. I'm leaning heavily toward electric.
    If you're interested in seeing the specific system I'm leaning toward you can see it at http://www.propulsionmarine.com/
    Base system is $5k US. Add about a grand for hi-thrust propellor and batteries.
    They custom make the mounting bracket so it fits right in your original motor mounts, lines up with your prop shaft.
    It would cost about the same for a new Beta diesel.
    Comments?

     Hello, I have a Propulsionmarine marine system which I have recently installed in my boat a 29' junk rig jester type hull. It is an excellent system and was a relatively easy install and well worth the expenditure and effort. In my opinion, the real benefit (other than getting to open water to sail) is in electric motorsailing eg:in light airs just using solar power to gain an extra 2 knots or when sailing hard taking out the drag of the prop for an extra knot. Realistically the  costs are about the same as a small new diesel which are closer to $10,000 -12,000 when you add the bits and pieces to make a small hi-bred system. Lithium batteries would cost more. Once installed there is no maintenance and the parts are industrial and will likely outlive us. No one part is outrageously expensive like a diesel engine but there are many small parts that add up. To the basic system, add Prop, batteries,large cables,48 volt charger,small genset for longer distance or emergency propulsion,and solarcells with a smart controller and you have the equivalent in expenditure as a 12hp diesel. You can go for less if you buy off the shelf and if you really know what you are doing and have had experience matching the components. The actual installation is much easier than any diesel. The hardest thing is getting the old mess out and cleaned up. The weight of diesel motor,tanks and fuel etc. is about the same as electric system with batteries, but the weight can be distributed more evenly. Jame's propulsionmarine sites in particular are very informative about everything. Other than being a happy customer,I have no connection with Propulsionmarine.
      Regards .

    Thanks so much. The Propulsion Marine is what I'm looking at as well. I doubt I'll put an aux gen on; for now at least I'll be on a lake and could easily get from one end to the other and at a modest speed. Otherwise about the same as yours, drive system, solar panels, charger/regulator/invertor.
    I figure I'll have to build a tripod out of 4x4's over the companionway to do the heavy lifting.

     I did my whole conversion on a mooring away from a dock as I had no propulsion.  I am of average strength for a 68 year old. I built a simple frame to take out the very heavy Volvo md7a and install the 165# batteries.
     The modularity of an electric system enables one to add things like generator, panels, prop etc. as time, finances or inclination dictate. Get the reduction ratio/prop size/ pitch  relative to your hull displacement absolutely spot on before you purchase from whomever.  In the end that makes all the difference as you are now usually dealing with small increments of electricity at low r.p.m., and very hi-torque at the prop. My 750# of battery energy is equivalent to about 8# of diesel energy at full out hull speed (without recharging) but can perhaps give me days of motorsailing.
       I started with the basic system and batteries. I have added a larger prop ,generator,430 watt solar panels with outback controller, 48 to 12 volt inverter, 48 volt power supply/charger etc. in bits and pieces  taking my time. I am still on a mooring and haven't a need yet for shore power. My new Yamaha 2000 genset hasn't been required as of yet. On a lake with shore power you hardly need anything above the basic system, a charger, and propulsion battery bank. Perhaps that will be all you need.
    Last modified: 28 Sep 2011 08:06 | Anonymous member
  • 24 Sep 2011 00:54
    Quote
    Reply # 707215 on 706886
    Deleted user
    David Robinson wrote:quite a lot of recent posts on this subject in the YBW PBO forum.  I have just searched under 'Electric vs diesel power' Fourth  item down might be a place to look..You may have to register to use the search facility.  David

    YBW PBO?
  • 24 Sep 2011 00:52
    Quote
    Reply # 707214 on 707016
    Deleted user
    George Revilla wrote:
    Jeff McFadden wrote:Well, the 30 yr. old Yanmar is dead. My choices as far as I can see are rebuild, replace with diesel, or replace with electric. I'm leaning heavily toward electric.
    If you're interested in seeing the specific system I'm leaning toward you can see it at http://www.propulsionmarine.com/
    Base system is $5k US. Add about a grand for hi-thrust propellor and batteries.
    They custom make the mounting bracket so it fits right in your original motor mounts, lines up with your prop shaft.
    It would cost about the same for a new Beta diesel.
    Comments?

     Hello, I have a Propulsionmarine marine system which I have recently installed in my boat a 29' junk rig jester type hull. It is an excellent system and was a relatively easy install and well worth the expenditure and effort. In my opinion, the real benefit (other than getting to open water to sail) is in electric motorsailing eg:in light airs just using solar power to gain an extra 2 knots or when sailing hard taking out the drag of the prop for an extra knot. Realistically the  costs are about the same as a small new diesel which are closer to $10,000 -12,000 when you add the bits and pieces to make a small hi-bred system. Lithium batteries would cost more. Once installed there is no maintenance and the parts are industrial and will likely outlive us. No one part is outrageously expensive like a diesel engine but there are many small parts that add up. To the basic system, add Prop, batteries,large cables,48 volt charger,small genset for longer distance or emergency propulsion,and solarcells with a smart controller and you have the equivalent in expenditure as a 12hp diesel. You can go for less if you buy off the shelf and if you really know what you are doing and have had experience matching the components. The actual installation is much easier than any diesel. The hardest thing is getting the old mess out and cleaned up. The weight of diesel motor,tanks and fuel etc. is about the same as electric system with batteries, but the weight can be distributed more evenly. Jame's propulsionmarine sites in particular are very informative about everything. Other than being a happy customer,I have no connection with Propulsionmarine.
      Regards .

    Thanks so much. The Propulsion Marine is what I'm looking at as well. I doubt I'll put an aux gen on; for now at least I'll be on a lake and could easily get from one end to the other and at a modest speed. Otherwise about the same as yours, drive system, solar panels, charger/regulator/invertor.
    I figure I'll have to build a tripod out of 4x4's over the companionway to do the heavy lifting.
  • 23 Sep 2011 18:05
    Quote
    Reply # 707016 on 706393
    Anonymous member
    Jeff McFadden wrote:Well, the 30 yr. old Yanmar is dead. My choices as far as I can see are rebuild, replace with diesel, or replace with electric. I'm leaning heavily toward electric.
    If you're interested in seeing the specific system I'm leaning toward you can see it at http://www.propulsionmarine.com/
    Base system is $5k US. Add about a grand for hi-thrust propellor and batteries.
    They custom make the mounting bracket so it fits right in your original motor mounts, lines up with your prop shaft.
    It would cost about the same for a new Beta diesel.
    Comments?

     Hello, I have a Propulsionmarine marine system which I have recently installed in my boat a 29' junk rig Jester type hull. It is an excellent system and was a relatively easy install, well worth the expenditure and effort.
       In my opinion, the real benefit (other than getting to open water to sail) is in electric motorsailing eg: in light airs, just using solar power alone to gain an extra 2 knots, or when sailing hard, taking out the drag of the prop for an extra knot.
      Realistically the  costs are about the same as a small new diesel which are closer to $10,000 -12,000 when you add the bits and pieces to make a small hybrid system. Lithium batteries would cost more. Once installed there is no or little maintenance and the parts are industrial and will likely outlive us. No one part is outrageously expensive like a diesel engine but there are many small parts that add up. To the basic system, add larger prop, batteries, large cables ,48 volt charger, small genset to extend range or emergency propulsion,and solarpanels with a smart controller and you have the equivalent in expenditure to a 12hp diesel. You can go for less if you buy off the shelf and if you really know what you are doing.
      The actual installation is much easier than any diesel. The hardest thing is getting the old mess out and cleaned up. The weight of diesel motor,tanks and fuel etc. is about the same as electric system with batteries, but the weight can be distributed more evenly. Jame's Propulsionmarine sites in particular are very informative about everything. Other than being a happy customer,I have no connection with Propulsionmarine.
      Regards .
    Last modified: 28 Sep 2011 07:59 | Anonymous member
  • 23 Sep 2011 14:32
    Quote
    Reply # 706886 on 706393
    Anonymous member
    quite a lot of recent posts on this subject in the YBW PBO forum.  I have just searched under 'Electric vs diesel power' Fourth  item down might be a place to look..You may have to register to use the search facility.  David
  • 23 Sep 2011 13:59
    Quote
    Reply # 706870 on 706779
    Anonymous member
    Paul Thompson wrote:Jeff, I'm very pro electric myself. And when the current diesel expires, I'll be switching to electric  also.  You want to checkout the electric boat group on Yahoo forums. It very informative, well moderated and the signal to noise ratio is good. All very unusual for a Yahoo group,

    You also want to talk to Kurt Jon Ulmer a JRA member who has an electric set up and has had it for quite a while know. I've no doubt that he'll post in a day or two. Kurt is very knowledgeable and a really nice guy to boot (pity about his flat sails but you cannot have everything, I guess :-) )..

    Look at the wonderful catamaran & their website:  Cynthia and Jean-Paul Legrand
  • 23 Sep 2011 09:37
    Quote
    Reply # 706779 on 706393
    Anonymous member
    Jeff, I'm very pro electric myself. And when the current diesel expires, I'll be switching to electric  also.  You want to checkout the electric boat group on Yahoo forums. It very informative, well moderated and the signal to noise ratio is good. All very unusual for a Yahoo group,

    You also want to talk to Kurt Jon Ulmer a JRA member who has an electric set up and has had it for quite a while know. I've no doubt that he'll post in a day or two. Kurt is very knowledgeable and a really nice guy to boot (pity about his flat sails but you cannot have everything, I guess :-) )..
  • 23 Sep 2011 04:41
    Quote
    Reply # 706578 on 706393
    Deleted user
    Jeff, good on you. Can't be any worse than diesel. 
    I've chosen outboard. Maybe they are or are not more reliable than small diesels, but experience around here is that they are cheaper to toss out and buy another than paying for a diesel mechanic. Much cheaper and less hassle. (Minor diesel repair costs upwards of $5,000...)  Same could be said for the components of your electric drive.
  • 23 Sep 2011 00:10
    Quote
    Reply # 706455 on 706426
    Deleted user
    David Tyler wrote:I like the idea – for a boat that is used for day trips and that returns to a dock to plug in each night. For a cruising boat, it would seem to need a small diesel gen-set or a very large wind turbine to feed the batteries at a sufficient rate.
    It would be great to avoid having an infernal combustion engine aboard.

    I'm thinking solar panels. Even cruisers (so I hear, no personal experience) spend much of their lives on the hook. In desperation there's always regenerative charging.
    Some years ago Gloria bought a 36 volt golf cart for a farm cart. I put a 200 watt solar panel on the roof and she only plugs it in in the winter. Uses it all day, but of course not non-stop.
    Of course you'd have to rely pretty heavy on your sails. ;-> Got more thrust than a diesel, though, for short term emergencies. And starts instantly, every time._
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