Jordan Series Drogues, other Drogues, and Sea Anchors

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  • 05 Apr 2013 02:52
    Reply # 1260278 on 592701
    Robin Fröberg wrote:
    I plan to make a parachute type of sea anchor ca 1,5 m ( 6ft) diam. Have anyone of you experience with such an anchor? I also plan to make a small trysail to hove-to  with the sea anchor and having the junk sail tied to gallows fore and aft . Is that a good idea?

    I think that size of parachute will be more like a drogue than a sea anchor, and will allow some forward motion. Its projected area is a little more than that of a Jordan series drogue, but nor enough to stop the boat. Therefore, I wouldn't want to stream it from the bow, as it wouldn't hold the bow into the sea. 

    A trysail is scarcely necessary on a junk rigged boat - the top panel fulfils that function, though it is a good plan to lash the rest of the sail and battens into a bundle, and to add a line to make fast to somewhere  on the lee side, so as to stabilise the heavy sail bundle as the boat rolls. Heaving to like that can be useful tactic just to stop the boat, when conditions are not too serious. 

    I wouldn't want to do all that is necessary to rig a trysail, in conditions that warrant a sea anchor or drogue. I think there is a consensus that if conditions are that bad, it's unsafe to continue to heave to, and better to run before the sea, using a drag device.
  • 06 Mar 2013 00:14
    Reply # 1234657 on 592701
    Deleted user
    When the storms disabled our self steering it wasn't the steering gear that was the problem. The lines that we used to attach the steering to the rudder were light nylon which stretched when wet and under tension rendering the self steering useless. This was a surprise, a disappointment and and really put us into a potentially dangerous situation. Its funny how the little things can really ruin the day!  The lashing we use are also of a stretchy nylon to give a snubber affect to the tiller and take away the strain. I think if the rudder is lashed tightly it is inviting something to break. I have now used a braided non stretch line on the self steering and the improvement in the self steering is quite measurable. Hopefully should be able to use it to steer through most conditions now and not need to rely on a nylon snubber or bungies for tiller lashings. We do also have heavy bungies that have been used to dampen the tiller in heavy seas. 


    Last modified: 06 Mar 2013 00:22 | Deleted user
  • 05 Mar 2013 23:52
    Reply # 1234636 on 592701
    This is well worth reading, for a wise and balanced approach to the subject of heavy weather:

    I'll just quote their conclusion:
    "Our conclusion: the ‘hardware’ factors many people concern themselves with have little to do with survival – boat rig, keel configuration, size. While the psychological factors matter far more: appropriate tactics, trust in your vessel and spirited leadership".
  • 05 Mar 2013 22:54
    Reply # 1234594 on 592701
    The Pardeys recommend a bridle on the parachute anchor, led back to a primary winch in the cockpit.  That keeps the vessel at an angle of 30 - 45 degrees to wind and wave.  They have also sometimes left their trysail hoisted.  With the helm lashed down there is much less strain on the rudder.  I noticed though, in very severe weather during their Cape Horn passage, that they did not deploy it.  I have also heard of numerous people not being able to get it up again, though that has happened with larger vessels and series drogues too.  The only time I put out a drogue, (in the same stormy autumn that Roger Taylor was crossing the Tasman in 1974 aboard Roc), my vessel, Poeme, continued to lie ahull but was held into the crests and took far heavier blows from breaking crests, so I pulled it in again.  The wind was independently verified as blowing at 70 - 80 knots.  I was 22, on my first passage and have often reflected on what I could have done better.  Perhaps a storm jib sheeted flat to keep the bows off.  I was too scared to sit in the cockpit and steer downwind and my homemade windvane was useless.  Perhaps my drogue, just a 100m 25mm dia warp, towed in a bight, did not have sufficient drag.

    There is also some danger in running too fast, even with several crew to steer.  In the Southern Ocean in 1980, enroute from New Zealand to Tahiti on the 55 foot, 32 ton schooner, Ishmael, we ran under bare poles in a severe blow with huge breaking seas.  We prepared a drogue with tyre and chains but never deployed it.  The three of us hand steered under bare poles at 7 knots and nearly pitchpoled on one wave.  I was steering at the time, standing at the wheel, and was thrown off my feet.  The bowsprit and jibboom, 22 feet long, and 15 feet of foredeck up to the foremast were buried in the trough as the ship came to a shuddering halt.  We hung there for what seemed like an eternity, then the bows reared up, sending tons of water aft and the schooner was flung onto her beam ends, then almost as far the other way, each time bringing lots of green water across the decks.  Down below, the bilge water was flung up into the accommodations, ruining my camera and soaking my pilot berth (five feet above the sole) with filthy, diesel soaked muck.

    I intend sailing Arion back to Tahiti before I die and often wonder how I will cope with such a storm in a small boat.  Hopefully my JSD will be the answer but until I deploy it I won't really know.  It is always fascinating to hear of other sailors' heavy weather experiences.  I am also finding a lot of food for thought in Roger Taylor's books about the heavy weather handling of small yachts under junk rig.  I am a bit astonished, and encouraged, to discover how well Ming Ming could lie to under one or two panels of sail, with the windvane set at 40 degrees and the sail well eased, just nosing up into it, in moderate gales (force 7 - 8).
  • 05 Mar 2013 21:10
    Reply # 1234513 on 592701
    I also agree that the rudder needs to be able to move a little.  Using the self-steering lines is a good way of doing this, or lashing it with really stout shock cord.

    I have had the misfortune to lie anchored to a parachute in F9 winds and can assure you that it is vilely uncomfortable.  My preference then (and now) would have been at least to deploy it from the stern so that the boat is at a more natural angle (stern seeks the wind).  Whenever possible, I would run keeping enough speed for steerage way as David suggests.  If you have the misfortune to be caught out in  the North Sea with the met. men calmly predicting F9 - 11 winds, you will be in one of those horrible situations where every direction can be a lee shore and there's really nowhere to run to.  That's when I'd appreciate something that could slow me down to a knot or so.

    Chucking your anchor tackle over the stern has always appealed to me as a realistic way of putting out lots of drag - especially in a smaller boat that hasn't got room for too much dedicated storm gear - or for those who would normally avoid such weather like the plague, but have got caught out in an abnormal system.
  • 05 Mar 2013 18:29
    Reply # 1234336 on 592701
    I agree with keeping the vane gear connected, Bob. I always keep my vane gear active under bare poles, and the effect is like a boxer riding the punches. A lashed helm is just standing there waiting to be hit, like a bad boxer, and a free helm is in danger of being thrown hard against it's stops.

    For a similar reason, I think there's a danger in having too effective a drogue. A boat that's moving, and yielding to oncoming seas is more comfortable than one that is getting hammered by each sea that passes. My preferred speed range in a gale is 3 -5 knots - fast enough for good steerage way, slow enough for there to be no danger of surfing, the chief danger. For this reason, I keep my drogue small, and I consider my home-made parachute sea anchor as a last resort to keep me off a lee shore, as you do, Bob, not as a storm tactic. The accounts I've read of lying to a parachute in a storm suggest that it is incredibly uncomfortable, and just marginally better than being wrecked. The accounts of towing a good drogue, however, suggest that it is as comfortable as being in a storm at sea is ever going to be.
  • 05 Mar 2013 12:52
    Reply # 1234056 on 592701
    Deleted user
    We were over run by Hurricane Sean in mid Atlantic in November 2011. We had a drogue made after the design of Bernard Moitessier.  This design is a three foot by four foot piece of canvas with a float (wood) on top and wighted bar on the bottom. It is attached by a four corner bridle to the tow line. Our experiments in favourable conditions indicated that it had extreme power in slowing down the boat.

    We never deployed it as the following system we deployed met our needs in an offshore environment. We used a large fishing float fender on the end of 100 yards of assorted ropes from 1/2" to to 1" diameter. In addition we also deployed a 10 kg bruce anchor on 75 feet of 1/4" chain with about 50' of rope rode. Both the anchor line and drag were through the stern chocks which are located close to the centre line of the boat on either side of the rudder. This rig slowed our downwind progress to between 1.5 and 2 knots with winds periodically in excess of 70 knots and sustained in the 50 knot range for a number of days. Seas were large and breaking, sometimes over the boat. Running under bare poles with the helm lashed over put us slightly angled off the wind. We also lashed it to centre and found that we also were slightly angled off the wind as well. The rudder had some damage from the forces exerted on it. We had extensive sail damage. We also had a couple of Northers that came just before and just after Sean gave us a kicking.

    I have improved the self steering and would use it next time we are caught in storm force winds to relieve some of the pressure on the rudder. If caught on a lee shore I would try to sail off. We would be tempted to use the Moitessier sea anchor if caught near shore and unable to sail away to try and hold us stationary until the winds improved. 

    Some friends who deployed a parachute sea anchor off their bow in storm force winds were not able to retrieve it and eventually lost the sea anchor. While their experience was not favourable, they lost their dodger and had damage to the boat, they have replaced the sea anchor and would use it again.

    Looking forward to reading the observations of those who have deployed a sea anchor in strong storm conditions.
    Last modified: 06 Mar 2013 00:02 | Deleted user
  • 04 Mar 2013 10:28
    Reply # 1233008 on 592701
    Polyprop for the bridle may well be the answer, Annie, or those little round polystyrene floats, or a sturdy bumpkin to hold the bridle clear of the transom, or maybe just stream it off one quarter as many ocean sailors have done with other types of drogue, though the vessel will probably yaw a bit more that way.  Anyway, I have ordered my JSD (being too impatient to build one), it has 107 cones, a 16mm double braided nylon warp tapering to 12mm for the last 25m and cost me $1450 Aus.  By the time I sail out into the Tasman Sea in November/December, I should have worked out how I am going to deploy it!  I am reading Roger Taylor's marvellous books at the moment, and learning a great deal about handling small junk rigged yachts at sea.  I have not yet got to the section where he deploys (and eventually loses) his JSD, but judging by the content of his books so far, I expect to have a better informed idea of how to deploy it when I do.
  • 04 Mar 2013 06:37
    Reply # 1232868 on 1210939
    Graham Cox wrote:Beth Leonard and her partner on Hawk (a 47 foot Van der Stadt), who have a great deal of heavy weather experience, are currently making up a drogue with two large cones, separated by 100m of line.  They have a JSD aboard that they have used successfully in a Southern Ocean storm but have decided to experiment with this set up because of the difficulty in retrieving the JSD.  It seems to be manageable in a smaller yacht but quite daunting in larger vessels. 

    Small is beautiful :-)

    I like the multiple cones of the JSD (you can buy them if you wish as a kit or make your own or buy a complete drogue) as each cone is not under much load.

    That's my feeling, too.

    As for me I am still thinking.  I am a bit concerned that the bridle of a standard JSD might tangle with my outboard motor stowed on a bracket on the transom.  A few boats have had this sort of problem with their bridles.  As you come over the crest of a wave the bridle angles down steeply and could get under anything mounted on the transom.  One boat got it around the leg of their Aries wind vane with unhappy results.  If the wind stops for a while, as in the eye of a cyclone or when the wind changes direction as a trough passes, the drogue has been known to hang straight down until the boat takes up again with the new wind direction.
    How about using heavy polypropylene line for the first part of the device?  It floats and wouldn't blow around that easily.  It could just make all the difference.
  • 18 Feb 2013 13:31
    Reply # 1211318 on 1210939
    Deleted user
    Graham Cox wrote:...  Go out in 35 - 40 knots (not an easy thing to force yourself to do) and test it.  ..
    haha, I can imagine the sea rescue guys having a fit when they see an odd looking (to them) boat steaming out through heads on a strong wind warning day..
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