Legs for drying out a fin keeled boat

  • 07 Mar 2018 21:13
    Reply # 5904988 on 5893577
    David Thatcher wrote: I would have thought that strength would not play a large part, as long as the legs were reasonably substantial, and the same for the mounting point. There are lots of factors to consider including the nature of the substrate the legs are sitting on, and the natural inclination of the particular vessel to sit upright. It seems to me that the legs would need to be splayed slightly outboard at their lower end to help keep the vessel in an upright position.
    When events happen as expected the legs are working in compression and the efforts are minimals.

    BUT real life is different and sometime the leg is working in flexion and, as the weight of a boat is expressed in tones, the efforts on a leg, for example, by a boat healing 45° may be important. In the transition periods, from floating to resting, the efforts are for above the crew capacities, the time is short and you are just spectators, expecting sametime that the situation will not degrade more....

    BUT Murthies law is not a dream! The leg may brake and ponction the hull... (my brother experienced that scenario, in a gale, in a not well protected harbour).

  • 07 Mar 2018 05:56
    Reply # 5893577 on 5889523
    Deleted user
    Graeme Kenyon wrote:

    From the outset and not being a fan of the "yachting industry" I couldn’t see the need for anything more complicated than two legs holding the boat upright by its chainplates, like Rob showed and pretty much what Eric is saying. Which, in the case of a junk conversion, chainplates would seem to be a redundant fitting tailor-made for the job.  Its just a matter of the legs being the right strength, I would have thought.



    I would have thought that strength would not play a large part, as long as the legs were reasonably substantial, and the same for the mounting point. There are lots of factors to consider including the nature of the substrate the legs are sitting on, and the natural inclination of the particular vessel to sit upright. It seems to me that the legs would need to be splayed slightly outboard at their lower end to help keep the vessel in an upright position.

    With the continuing threat to our tidal cleaning grids here in New Zealand I can see a set of legs somewhere in 'Footprints' future. Of course with the very broad end plate on the bottom of her keel she will probably remain upright without too much encouragement. Actually I still have my 100mm diameter x 3mm wall thickness ex yard which has bent very neatly right in the middle. I wonder whether cut in half in the middle that might provide enough length for a leg either side?! I had better not throw it away.

    Last modified: 07 Mar 2018 05:58 | Deleted user
  • 05 Mar 2018 12:08
    Reply # 5889523 on 5887317
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Thanks Eric for some good practical pointers. And I realise any of these materials would do, the reason I questioned Rob on materials and size that he used in his case, was only because I was trying to get some idea of how strong they need to be. (which sort of depends on how much of a lean one should tolerate, I suppose, like sitting on a stationary heavy weight motorbike and holding it upright.) And thanks David for that link to a very good article by Paul Fay on the subject, which goes some way towards answering that question of how strong they need to be.

    But it raises others, ie why the need for special hull fittings, special bolts with the right sheer strength, pads against the hull, deck plates, factory-made extendable legs etc etc.? Not to mention the question of champagne or whiskey corks. 

    From the outset and not being a fan of the "yachting industry" I couldn’t see the need for anything more complicated than two legs holding the boat upright by its chainplates, like Rob showed and pretty much what Eric is saying. Which, in the case of a junk conversion, chainplates would seem to be a redundant fitting tailor-made for the job.  Its just a matter of the legs being the right strength, I would have thought.

    I hope I haven’t missed anything.

    Actually, I had been thinking of the tops of the legs as “sky hooks”, each carrying a short chain down to the chain plate where it is shackled through the appropriate link. Or an adjustable tackle. Maybe Rob’s thru-bolt and choice of holes is a better idea, though I am not sure about that, as that might depend a bit on where the chainplate is located in relation to the belting, and other little details pertaining to the particular boat.

    I get that it might be difficult during that transitional period while the boat is settling, to get everything to sit right. And I am thinking of, rather than a fin keel boat, a long keel which, once its on the bottom, can't really pitch, wobble or screw around (if the latter may be taken as a technical term).

    Thanks again folks.


    Last modified: 05 Mar 2018 12:47 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 05 Mar 2018 08:28
    Reply # 5889330 on 5889175
    Graeme Kenyon wrote:

    Thanks Rob, that looks simple enough.

    In my case, draft 1m and round bilge, they might need to be a just a bit longer - and I dare say just a little thicker. What were the legs made of, and do you happen to remember the cross section measurement?


    The legs may be out of timber or galvanized iron tube or aluminium tube (old mast ).

    They could be bolted to the existing chainplates.

    The lateral pressure against the hull should be spread by a wooden knee, just above the flottation line, following the shape of the hull, covered with a soft material as leather.

    The legs should be oriented 10° outwards to remain vertical if the boat leans a little on one side.

    There is an unpleasant time when the boat is dancing and banging from one leg to the other, while drying.

    PS : On my teenager cruiser, as it was French, the corks were Champagne ones ! (not safer, I'm afraid !)

    Eric

  • 05 Mar 2018 05:24
    Reply # 5889175 on 5887317
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Thanks Rob, that looks simple enough.

    In my case, draft 1m and round bilge, they might need to be a just a bit longer - and I dare say just a little thicker. What were the legs made of, and do you happen to remember the cross section measurement?

  • 05 Mar 2018 01:55
    Reply # 5889008 on 5887317
    Anonymous

    Hi Graeme,

    I have used legs on a previous boat. The top of the leg had a choice of 3 bolt positions that could be bolted to the chainplate. The leg had a circular disc of ply for a foot. It was braced fore and aft by ropes as you mentioned. For this boat, the legs were quite short. Hopefully you can see them on the photo.

    Rob

    1 file
    Last modified: 05 Mar 2018 01:58 | Anonymous
  • 03 Mar 2018 22:49
    Reply # 5887760 on 5887317
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Thanks David, for taking the trouble to follow up on that. Pretty much as shown in the picture, I guess there is no great mystery to it. You never seem to see them used here, though we have something like 3m tides. I suspect that antifouling on a sand beach would not be permitted these days, but a scrub down might be OK and there are still other reasons for needing to get at the hull sometimes. My (long keel) boat will lie down and stand up OK (as I found out at the last junket at Stillwater) - but not very dignified and I don't like to do it on purpose.

    I was wondering if, instead of bolting the legs to the hull, it might be possible to deploy them alongside and coming up a little above the existing (bermudan rig) chain plates, so each leg is in compression and the attachment to the chainplate is in tension. If you see what I mean. With judicious use of a line fore-and-aft from each of the feet.

    It works OK in a "mind experiment" but I have never seen it done.

  • 03 Mar 2018 10:12
    Message # 5887317
    Graeme Kenyon wrote

    What I would like (perhaps start a new thread) is someone to explain how these legs work - in the picture of it in the shed the lines are off, and it looks as though they are bolted to the hull. You don't see legs much in New Zealand (in fact I have never seen legs used) but I know they are common in the UK. Can someone tell me if there is a thread on legs, or please start one with a basic run down on whats required? I rather fancy making a pair, if it is practical.

    Many years ago, when Adam was still a little boy, my first cruiser had legs like this. There were metal plates in the topsides that were firmly fixed to reinforcing pads on the inside of the planking. That plate had a large screw thread through it, and the leg had a matching bolt. As far as I remember, there were some corks from whisky bottles to keep the water out when the legs weren't in place (!!) but there should have been some screwed blanking plugs with sealing washers. When drying out, the legs were first bolted on loosely, with the leg just partly floating in the water, and then they were pulled down into place with the lines, which were cleated off fore and aft, and the bolts were tightened. Having screw threads in the plates meant that there was no need for a nut on the inside, the job could be done single-handed from the outside. There isn't really much magic to it. The important thing is that the legs must be just a few inches less in draught than the boat, so that they never get asked to bear the whole weight of the boat. There should be some kind of a plate on the bottom of the leg, to spread the load on a soft bottom, and it's good if that plate is hinged so that it can adjust to an uneven bottom.

    Last modified: 03 Mar 2018 15:23 | Anonymous member
       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

                                                              Site contents © the Junk Rig Association and/or individual authors

Powered by Wild Apricot Membership Software