Hi Frederik,

Well, that would certainly be going from one end of the spectrum of designs to the other! The Folkboat, and related hull forms, have a well deserved reputation of being good seaboats, and you could cross the Atlantic with no worries, in normal summer weather. The shoal draught keel-less boxboats, as designed by Phil Bolger, Dave Zieger (Triloboats), Bruce Kirby (Norwalk Sharpies) and Chris Morejohn (Hogfish) do not have that reputation, and in general, extended offshore cruising is not a factor that's high up in the design brief. I'm aware that Jim Melcher crossed the Atlantic in Alert, but such examples must be few and far between. There's Blondie Hasler's Sumner, but that had twin keels with bulbs on their bottoms, for stability.

The Hogfish type would be suitable for short periods of cruising around the shoal waters of the Danish Islands, but would be very low on my list of boats suitable for cruising beyond home waters. I see that there is a "Hogfish Maximus", with a LOD of 38ft, reckoned to be suitable for ocean use, and indeed, the designer did an Atlantic circuit in one, but it wouldn't be my first choice, when I could equally easily build a Benford Dory (as an example of a seaworthy, flat bottomed boat). Note that Chris Morejohn lives in the Bahamas, where the water is very shoal, just like your home waters, Frederik.

Hi all.

My first entry on JRA.

Whilst getting ready to put my IF junk rig (thanks Arne) in the water and looking forward to my first hands on experience with sailing a junk rig, I am thinking about the "next one"..

Could anyone here elaborate on the designs of Chris Morejohn? The hogfish boxboat, very shallow draft designs?

Cheers. Frederik Elslo 

I am with Annie and David Ty.

that a long keel is not needed for offshore use. Still, by making something between the long keel and fin keel, one gets enough area on a moderate draught.  It ensures a steady sole to stand on with only a pair of legs needed to keep it upright on shore. To me the photo below, of Ron Glas, shows an excellent compromise keel  -  and a lovely hull.

Arne

David Tyler wrote:

Heavy enough for sufficient carrying capacity is the real point, for extended cruising - more food, water, books, tools and spares. My rule of thumb is 4 tons of loaded displacement per person, unless you're a minimalist.

Not quite true. More important than the keel is a large rudder that is very well aft, on a large skeg.

Anyone building a hull would be well advised to go with what they know. I can't weld, so steel and aluminium are out, for me. But even when you have a hull and deck, with metal and GRP, you have to take pains to hide them, whereas with wood/epoxy, you don't. Wood/epoxy is the easiest to live with, long term.

Have a look at the map of world wide tides in this article . The Pacific NW is another area with significant tidal range, along with the European coast. From California, you are near to one of the world's best extended cruising grounds, BC and Alaska, (even if it's an uphill task to get there!). From the extended cruiser's point of view, it's about being able to take the ground when you want to, as well as when you have to. Part of the package is cleaning and painting the bottom, and you want to be able to do that without expensive haul-outs. In a popular anchorage, it's good to be able to pick a spot further inshore and more sheltered than the deeper boats. 

I agree with David: long keels are over-rated.  It's nice to have a handy boat that is a joy to sail in confined waters.

Steel is fine, when it's fairly new, but once it starts ageing, those wee damaged areas in the paint mean rust streaks everywhere.  As David says, you have to build an interior, too, which means that you require some woodworking skills.  But there are heaps and heaps of low-cost, second-hand steel boats about.

Wherever you go, chances are you'll wish you had less draught at some time.  Sneaking further into the anchorage, visiting somewhere 'off the chart', drying out to scrub off in small tidal zones, exploring places with large tides.  I have heard a lot of people complain about having too much draught: I don't recall anyone saying they feel they have too little (unless it's to do with getting better windward performance).

Daniel Champness wrote:

From everything I’ve read (showing my limited knowledge), I would think for extended cruising you would want a vessel that could be easily handled by one or two persons, 

Yes

heavy enough to not heel excessively and bobble around but give some comfort and stability, 

Heavy enough for sufficient carrying capacity is the real point, for extended cruising - more food, water, books, tools and spares. My rule of thumb is 4 tons of loaded displacement per person, unless you're a minimalist.

a long enough keel so as not to turn or broach on a dime, but something that you can heave to with or turn tail and launch a drogue or something during heavy seas. 

Not quite true. More important than the keel is a large rudder that is very well aft, on a large skeg.

For me the plus for steel is; I am a heavy structural steel fabricator and have the background knowledge and facility for fabricating a vessel. On the other hand there is a warmth and comfort with wood. We will see.

Anyone building a hull would be well advised to go with what they know. I can't weld, so steel and aluminium are out, for me. But even when you have a hull and deck, with metal and GRP, you have to take pains to hide them, whereas with wood/epoxy, you don't. Wood/epoxy is the easiest to live with, long term.

I can see why those of you in the British Isles and other nearby locations have multi-keeled boats but how many places are there that benefit from this configuration? As I write this I realize I am misconstruing cruising with voyaging, sorry.

Have a look at the map of world wide tides in this article . The Pacific NW is another area with significant tidal range, along with the European coast. From California, you are near to one of the world's best extended cruising grounds, BC and Alaska, (even if it's an uphill task to get there!). From the extended cruiser's point of view, it's about being able to take the ground when you want to, as well as when you have to. Part of the package is cleaning and painting the bottom, and you want to be able to do that without expensive haul-outs. In a popular anchorage, it's good to be able to pick a spot further inshore and more sheltered than the deeper boats.