Timothy Balcer wrote:"in a schooner rig i prefere more or less equal sail areas to avoid a foresail shadowed by the main when running. (as this would increase weather helm…)"

Ahh I see. That's good information! :-)

In my experience of one junk-rigged schooner, I would suggest that regardless of the size of the sails, the mainsail will blanket the foresail when running, unless you have a pretty flat sea, are hand steering and can keep the sails wing and wong.  (You have a much better chance of doing this if the foresail has a good forward rake; on the other hand, the rolling might be pretty dire, with a decent sea running.)  We used to reef the foresail, sheet it in to steady the rolling and then carry on under main.  Some boats do the opposite.  Regardless, when running, either with one sail or both, there was never any noticeable weather helm.

"Ok! Lets see if I can address things.


"with your sketched sailplan both sails need double sheeting."

Ok to say again, right now I am ONLY interested in figuring out mast placement and sail size. I am going to make that decision, then go from there with sheeting, arrangement, etc. I know it is all interrelated, and I know sail shape is involved, however my starting point is "I want an SA/D of 20". That's my constraint. That's my only constraint, except for the desire to do a Taylor modified Hasler rig. Also, I realize my sketch shows the need for double sheeting on both sails... that's why I said.. this is a rough idea. I could, for example, use single sheeting on  the main if I built an arch over the rear of the vessel with the sketchup I have. It is only a sail plan, not a sheeting plan. I am trying to find a starting point from my initial constraints only, then go from there with adjustments and modifications. Such as double sheeting, which I am happy to do if it means that is the only way to get an SA/D of 20.

I'll be making a sketchup using hasler sails to make things more clear, I think :-) I just did this one because it was the nicest line drawing of junk sails I could find on a few minutes notice.

"in a schooner rig i prefere more or less equal sail areas to avoid a foresail shadowed by the main when running. (as this would increase weather helm…)"

Ahh I see. That's good information! :-)


"then i would try a ketch rig first – with the mizzen moved a little bit from the centerline, if necessary. (even with a ketch i would try to make the mizzen at least half as tall as the main.)" 


I'll work on that, along with a new sketchup, and see what comes out. Thank you!
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Re: Arne - Im new to Junk Rig in terms of building them yes, but Ive sailed on one in Maine, and I have been devouring content here for quite some time, as well as owning PJR. Thanks for the references!! I'll definitely use your advice to do a new sketchup.

hi timothy

Timothy Balcer wrote:

Oh! I wasn't intending on using that sail type.. I am intending on doing a Taylor modified Hasler rig, as Roger Taylor did.

then i would use a taylor/hasler sail for sketching, as different aspects (sheeting, mast placement…) will change as well.

It might be necessary to do double sheeting on the fore sail just for placement, but I would almost certainly do single sheets on the main.

with your sketched sailplan both sails need double sheeting.

why do you prefer an equal area rig?

in a schooner rig i prefere more or less equal sail areas to avoid a foresail shadowed by the main when running. (as this would increase weather helm…)

In my case, it would be difficult to do with the cabin plan and hatch, as the engine is actually not in the same place it is in the other drawings.. it is well forward and has a straight shaft backward.

then i would try a ketch rig first – with the mizzen moved a little bit from the centerline, if necessary. (even with a ketch i would try to make the mizzen at least half as tall as the main.)

ueli

hi timothy

there are different things i don't like on your sailplan:

• if it has to be a schooner, i prefere a balance between 1:1 and 2:3 for the sail areas. (michael kastens who sketched your sail, usually goes for 1:1)
• i would try to separate the sails a little bit more. (could be problematic with the interiour layout…)
• at least the foremast could have some forward rake.
• i don't like the idea of double sheets (lots of unused line lengths to keep away from snatching something somewhere…) but there may be no choice with this sailplan…

just by the sketches, i wouldn't count michael kasten to the junk rig experts. you will find better sail designs here in the JRA. (first of all arne kverneland, david tyler and slieve mcgaillard).

two high ar sails in the 'weaverbird' style might possibly work with single sheets. (i'm not sure about this…)

i hope one of the experienced junkies will jump in…

ueli

I was thinking along these lines (very roughly)



http://grittyrobot.com/islander_44_drawing_junk.png

I haven't done the CLR calculations.. this is just a first shot eyeball attempt. Fear not.. I'll do all the math :-)


With this layout, the foremast would come down ahead of the V Berth, but I would also move the anchor chain aft to offset the additional weight forward.


The mainmast would be just ahead of the galley.


I am going for a SA/D of around 20.