Split Cruising Rig- Pearson 10M refit

<< First  < Prev   1   2   Next >  Last >> 
  • 10 May 2016 16:32
    Reply # 4011918 on 4004261
    Deleted user

     

    Mudita split rig model - edge filtered for clarity 

    I took Slieve's advice and made a model -about 1/7 scale.

    1)  Now I understand how the combination of the halyard, yard hauling parrel, and throat hauling parrel control the shape of the whole rig.  Once those are dialed in, the reast of the thing just hangs in the right place.

    2) The linked image above has the mast raked aft, which I only noticed after I took the picture.  It explains why I had trouble getting the battens to line up at 33% balance, and why the 4th batten from the bottom shifts the luff forward.  I'll fix that when I futz around with it more tonight.

    Question: The luff areas of the top two panels have a different curve on the model than in the drawing.  Is it possible to draw a rig that won't set as drawn, or is it that I probably just measured the strings a bit off in this small critical area?

  • 10 May 2016 14:56
    Reply # 4011769 on 4004261
    Deleted user

    I get something similar -quick math says a rake of 4 degrees on a 43 foot mast with 6 feet of bury would move my CoE forward about 1.3 feet. 

    So tempting.  Colin is right - I could keep that hatch with a forward rake.  Just barely.

    I"m reluctant to add that design complication into the rig, though.  It feels like I'm outside my experimental comfort zone just going to the split rig.  Heck, the whole conversion is a bit audacious for a lubber with no offshore experience.  

    I guess it's that I feel confident that I can move mast steps and replace hatches.  I don't feel confident that I can understand and develop a well balanced, safe, reliable, and effective raked split rig.  If I was doing some coastal cruising on an easily modified boat, I might enjoy the experiment: it could be very fruitful.  But... maybe not on this one.  Perhaps Slieve will chime in and advise the rake, though from talking to him, I believe that he's not a big fan of the idea.

     

  • 09 May 2016 21:24
    Reply # 4010480 on 4004261
    Deleted user

    I'd estimate about 18 inches.

    Chris

  • 09 May 2016 21:14
    Reply # 4010475 on 4004261
    Deleted user

    Hmm.  Chris, how much do you estimate canting the mast with that sail plan moved its CoA forward? 

    Last modified: 06 Dec 2016 18:02 | Deleted user
  • 09 May 2016 15:44
    Reply # 4009947 on 4007705
    Deleted user
    Chris Gallienne wrote:

    Normally, a split rig requires an upright mast (no pun intended).

    Whle it could be implemented on a canted mast, the design and build would be tricky. The need to maintain fairly constant balance top to bottom, and the need for battens to be near-hrizontal would require trapezoid-shaped panels. Depends how 'experimental' you feel, but I don't think I'd want to attempt it.

    Immediately after having written this a little bell started ringing - I looked through some old sketches I made for schooner rigs for China Girl and found this and this. The main mast is upright and carries an Arne-type cambered H&M sail. The foremast is canted 4.5 degrees forward and carries a split sail. The variation in balance bottom to top on the fore is only 30.5% to 28.5%. The 'jiblets' are all a constant size but the main panels decrease in size top to bottom because of the need to sheet the leech effectively.
    Last modified: 09 May 2016 15:53 | Deleted user
  • 09 May 2016 15:22
    Reply # 4009908 on 4004261
    Deleted user

    I thought about raking the mast forward, too, but had to let it go for the reasons Chris mentions.  A thought experiment says that there may be a trade here, though -  a forward-raked split rig would have longer jiblets in the lower panels, tapering to none in the upper where I would un-split them anyway.  Of course, that adds considerable construction complication, and I suspect that by the third panel, the jiblets would be too short to perform their function;   Slieve's geneisis for creating the split rig is that the first third of the airfoil generates most of the windward lift, it wouldn't make sense to reduce those much. 

    So, yup, the hatch has to go.

    Consequently, I'm toying with two ideas for re-arrangement up there.  Both are in the rocking chair and beer phase of development:

    1) Expand the coach roof forward a bit (work!?), and add a new hatch up there?  Roger Taylor's description of trying to get to the foredeck of Mingming by squeezing and squirming past the junk rig's athwartship obstacles sure makes me want a secret passage to the pulpit.  If I don't expand the coach roof, then whatever hatch I add will need some serious offshore coamings - I don't want it flush with the main deck.

    2) Since the mast is now eating up the v-berth, why not rig up the chain locker near its step, moving the ground tackle weight aft to offset the mast weight moving forward?  That makes for a complicated areaall around the mast partners and step, but worth the consideration, perhaps?  That leads to questions for a trash pump at the bottom of the locker because now it'll be below the waterline.  Am I getting simpler or more complicated?

    On the rig front, I followed Slieve's recommendation and made a model of the rig last night out of string and a few dowels that were kicking around the house.  I haven't fitted it with a mast, yard hauling parrel, or this mysterious peaking parrel yet - just hung from the ceiling by the halyard and snugged with a downhaul.  It's surprising how minor changes in the downhaul and halyard positions and tension change the entire rig shape.   When I get the other elements in there, I expect it to robust up a bit.  Pictures to follow. 

     

     

    Last modified: 23 May 2018 17:35 | Deleted user
  • 07 May 2016 10:04
    Reply # 4007705 on 4004261
    Deleted user

    Normally, a split rig requires an upright mast (no pun intended).

    Whle it could be implemented on a canted mast, the design and build would be tricky. The need to maintain fairly constant balance top to bottom, and the need for battens to be near-hrizontal would require trapezoid-shaped panels. Depends how 'experimental' you feel, but I don't think I'd want to attempt it.

    Last modified: 07 May 2016 10:06 | Deleted user
  • 07 May 2016 04:53
    Reply # 4007495 on 4004261
    Deleted user

    Hi Scott,

    "It's clear that I'm going to lose that forward hatch to the mast relocation -  do most people relocate the hatch further forward?  It seems for safety and ventilation at least, there should be some way out up there."

    I'm not so sure about your conclusion.  Have your thought about canting the mast forward.  Doing that in this case it could achieve your goals for safety, ventilation, (and limited changes in the boat) and could still place the masthead just where it is located on the sail plan.  The sail would still hang in the place shown on the drawing.  Then, if the mast step were located at the junction of the keel and the forefoot the mast, the mast would pierce the cabin top well aft of the forward hatch.  You would have to change the direction of swing on the door to the head.

    Colin

  • 06 May 2016 14:15
    Reply # 4006391 on 4004261
    Deleted user

    Thanks, Annie.

    I'm a bit leery of combining the words, "radical design, offshore, and Scott" into a single concept.  But I'm guessing that should the split rig give me trouble offshore, I can just reef that baby down to the top panels and sail on with a design that's proved itself over the last few decades.  Right?  (This is where you all chime in and tell me if I'm biting off too much).

    I hadn't really thought about documenting the process and result, but I think you're right; it might be informative for everybody if I made it a habit to take notes and photos as I go, then keep a good log.  I'll make that a item on the daily list.  Plus there's a potential bonus that when I publish the book, I could make...  jeez, dozens of dollars.  Think of the fame! 

    Pearson 10M - New Poppy - with Cabin Layout

    It's clear that I'm going to lose that forward hatch to the mast relocation -  do most people relocate the hatch further forward?  It seems for safety and ventilation at least, there should be some way out up there.

    Last modified: 06 May 2016 20:06 | Deleted user
  • 05 May 2016 22:09
    Reply # 4005279 on 4004261
    Hi Scott

    It's really good that you are going to design and build a split-junk rig for offshore work.  The rig appeals to a lot of those converting, because it often requires fewer drastic alterations to the accommodation.  Unfortunately, we have no decent accounts of how it works for long-term, offshore cruising, (ie the usual 10,000 miles a year that voyagers knock up).  I, for one, will be following your story with great interest.  If you could take lots of photos while you are building and sorting out the rig, with a view to writing it up for the magazine somewhere down the line, this would prove to be a great asset for others interested in split junk rig.

    Slieve's concepts are one of the more radical variations on the junk rig theme: it would be great to see more of them being built and seriously sailed.

<< First  < Prev   1   2   Next >  Last >> 
       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

                                                              Site contents © the Junk Rig Association and/or individual authors

Powered by Wild Apricot Membership Software