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Paceship PY23 to JR

  • 29 Feb 2016 19:10
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    Reply # 3851354 on 3821645
    Anonymous

    Thanks Arne, Phil. I completed the first rendering of the sailplan last night. I  will try to scan and post it tonight after work. I used imperial measurement and ended up with :

    270.97 Sq. Ft. SA   1.80 AR   2.40 SA/Disp.

    I looked at the Sunbird mast hinging  system and another production ( Marshall) cat boat with a hinged post and socket arrangement. I still like the Dutch tabernacle for its ability to employ a cable and winch from the foot of the  mast. As I  age I will not want to be man handling 20 ft of 5"Dia. Sch. 40 aluminum pipe. I like the idea of the bundle and mast resting in a gallows over the spray hood, launching the boat and raising mast and sail while I  motor away from the ramp. I have an idea I  will present for this tabernacle system and how it anchors to the keel bolts and basically dog legs so as not to encroach on the v berth too much and keep the mast plumb.Thanks again for all the support.

    Last modified: 29 Feb 2016 20:48 | Anonymous
  • 29 Feb 2016 02:11
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    Reply # 3849899 on 3821645
    Deleted user

    Jeff, some time ago I converted an O'day 23, a boat very similar in size and displacement to your Paceship. It's a great size boat and rig to gain experience on. It's also a fine set up for you to introduce any new comers to sailing with some cabin comforts along with the ability to easily reduce sail and anxiety when the wind pipes up. On a nearby lake we loved to sail at night which often led to my wife and son playing cards below while I enjoyed the evening breeze. You mentioned Phil Bolger. He designed a simple square mast and tabernacle for the O'day which worked very well. If you your time frame changes (Don't I know how that can happen) and you should decide to go with a wooden mast I'd be glad to share specific info to use or scale up . The O'day only carried 230 ft2 of sail, limited by the modified airplane shaped wing junk sail that I bought and re-cut to PJR standard shape. The mast was 4 ¾ in X 27 ft (3ft tabernacle). The locally grown spruce walls were 1 ½ inches thick at the base and thinned very gradually, at first, in a barrel taper and more as they neared the top which did flex a bit. The best mast for trailering however would be the hinged aluminum mast as you can drop the sail below the hinge without undoing the all of the parrels etc. or leaving them long enough to lay along the dropped mast still in the tabernacle which worked OK for a short distance over the road. With a boat this size and a junk rig trailering is a real task. For me that for me that meant one trip to the dock at the lake and one trip to a mooring on the coast to finish off the summer and fall. Good luck

    Phil
  • 28 Feb 2016 18:11
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    Reply # 3849393 on 3821645
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Jeff, I guess the biggest challenge is to make the sailmaker cut the sail with camber in it.  Most sailmakers still think that junksails should be flat.  At least you must be careful to make the Sheet 3 sailplan with each panels shown with the needed round. I guess you should also make a sheet 4, which indicates the position of the batten pockets. You should have decided on batten dimension before ordering the sail.

    Frankly, I think it is a much better idea to make the sail yourselves. I have never found a (legal) DIY project which pays better per hour than making my own sails.

    Arne 
  • 28 Feb 2016 16:23
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    Reply # 3849206 on 3821645
    Anonymous

    Thank you Annie. That was to be my next question. If any of the b.c members know of a local sail maker that does work with junk sails it would be of help.I can understand there may be a level of prejudice amongst the yachting community towards JR, but for myself I have always been a Bolger fan and the first time I saw Jester I  was sold. Not only the user friendliness, but I just think junk rigs look great. I purposely bought an inexpensive boat to experiment with. I  wish I  had time to learn to sew but I need to expedite this project and have my boat ready for spring. I do know  of a canvas guy  who makes wall tents among other things, maybe he can help. Thanks again.
  • 27 Feb 2016 22:37
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    Reply # 3848396 on 3821645
    Anonymous member
    Jeff, Arne's sails are very easy for an amateur to make: I would really encourage you to try making one.  Use a cotton sheet or some cheap, easy-to-handle material, and make a small scale one first, to try out the techniques.

    However, the techniques that Arne uses are different from those that a sailmaker would use, so you may encounter some problems if you take your plan along to a sailmaker.  I suggest you select with care: they are often antipathetic to junk rig and even more antipathetic to the customer making suggestions as to how the sail should be made.  The tendency is to persuade you to make the sail from standard Dacron sailcloth, whether you want to or not.  You will also need to emphasise that such things as the batten pockets are different from the full-length batten pockets they are used to fitting for fully-battened pointy sails.  You may need to talk to two or three before you find somebody simpatico.  A fellow member in your area might be able to suggest somebody.
  • 19 Feb 2016 21:55
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    Reply # 3832914 on 3821645
    Anonymous

    Thanks for the information. I will check into that.

    Last modified: 24 Feb 2016 02:46 | Anonymous
  • 16 Feb 2016 18:36
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    Reply # 3825750 on 3821645
    Deleted user

    Hi Jeff. My daughter keeps a junk-rigged Kingfisher 20 in the French Alps and last summer got hold of a second hand mast which is hinged in the way that David describes. As he said, it was made by Sunbird Marine. If you're interested I can ask her to send some  pictures of the system. . You could also email Robin Blain of Sunbird - email address in his profile - and request details. I'm sure he'd help. 
  • 16 Feb 2016 14:07
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    Reply # 3825167 on 3821645
    Anonymous

    That is really excellent advice. I definitely first need to determine my mast location. I had a feeling it would have to locate further forward into the v berth but I can live with that. I will do some further reading and research . I will also do a search to see the tabernacle you mentioned. Thanks very much for your help.
  • 15 Feb 2016 22:12
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    Reply # 3823847 on 3821645
    Anonymous member

    Jeff, I think the mast is going to need to go somewhat forward of the hatch, and therefore will disrupt the V berth. You might just be able to use Annie's solution for Fantail, and have the foot of the mast at the aft end of the V berth, with a forward rake. This will leave room to scramble into bed, but it's tight. Adding a conventional tabernacle will make things tighter, as they are larger than the mast they support (obviously!) You might consider, though, as you are a metal worker, the type of hinged mast that Needlespar made for some of the smaller UK boats. This had a very strong hinge that was made from solid alloy bar, let into the mast tube just below the tack of the sail, and a tubular alloy sleeve that slid down over the hinge after the mast was stepped.The sleeve carries all the bending load; the hinge is just there to make raising and lowering easier. This is the kind of tabernacle that makes most sense in small trailer-sailers, I feel.

    At a guess, the mast tube is going to be in the region of 5in diameter.
  • 15 Feb 2016 03:02
    Quote
    Message # 3821645
    Anonymous

     I am new to the forum and admittedly new to junk rigs and sailing for that matter. I purchased my 1975 Paceship PY 23 "Amber"  a few months back for a couple of reasons. I wanted a coastal cruiser that I could weekend on with my partner Laura, it had to be trailerable, and I wanted a shoal draft keel centerboarder. I have had every intention of converting the boat from the beginning. The Hassler McCleod style rig is the intent at this point and I would like to have the mast in a tabernacle. Hopefully the tabernacle can penetrate through the existing hatch if it moves the mast forward enough. My first choice is to use aluminum for the mast and possibly counterweight it as I want a simple set up with minimal time spent at the ramp. I am in the metal trade so alloy makes sense. A flat cut sail will work for me. Hopefully with your assistance I can get this project underway and have Amber ready for spring. Please have a look at my boat and let me know what you think would work best the conversion.  Thanks, Jeff

    http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=340



    Last modified: 15 Feb 2016 03:08 | Anonymous
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