Help with mast...

  • 18 Jan 2016 18:31
    Reply # 3766690 on 3763388

    To get around the companionway problem, could you, perhaps, offset the mast slightly to one side of the centreline, and the sliding companionway hatch to the other side? But for your proposed usage, I think I'd favour a raised doghouse, high enough so that a sliding hatch is not needed.



    Last modified: 18 Jan 2016 18:33 | Anonymous member
  • 18 Jan 2016 15:14
    Reply # 3766089 on 3763388
    Deleted user

    Still reconsidering... here's a blog post with some ideas:

    http://junkrighouseboat.blogspot.ca/2016/01/decisions-decisions-my-head-spins.html

  • 17 Jan 2016 19:15
    Reply # 3764979 on 3763388
    Deleted user

    I am seriously reconsidering a two mast rig in deference to the expertise here and from others I've been in contact with.

    The easiest way to do it then is to step the masts and avoid any kind of lowering mechanism.  The downside is that it puts us in a position of requiring bridge swings in the areas we want to go.  Some inconvenience for a lot less design and building complexity.  Serious food for thought...

    As Mr. Van Loan recommends in his book... I'll sleep on it!

  • 16 Jan 2016 21:13
    Reply # 3763696 on 3763688
    Alan Jones wrote:

    I would do the equal sized sail configuration probably under other circumstances such as not needing to drop the rig so often.  One other problem with a larger aft mast is a suitable tabernacle arrangement.  The forward mast is no problem since I can have a well to accommodate the swing of the bottom part.  The only way to put a similar aft rig on this boat would be to have it on the rear bulkhead, and that puts the whole thing too far aft.

    On SibLim, we're putting the mast in a tabernacle in the middle of the forecabin, with a slot to permit the heel to come out through the forward bulkhead. Maybe you could reverse this, for the after mast, to get it in the right place?
  • 16 Jan 2016 21:00
    Reply # 3763688 on 3763388
    Deleted user

    I guess David, that you and I were writing at the same time so I missed your post before my last one.

    I would do the equal sized sail configuration probably under other circumstances such as not needing to drop the rig so often.  One other problem with a larger aft mast is a suitable tabernacle arrangement.  The forward mast is no problem since I can have a well to accommodate the swing of the bottom part.  The only way to put a similar aft rig on this boat would be to have it on the rear bulkhead, and that puts the whole thing too far aft.

    Nonetheless, I'm still building the hull and have lots of time to make changes and will look at all options and appreciate all input.

    I'll check out the larger extrusion for sure.  I can get it ordered from a shop I've dealt with for years that is in Chilliwack.

    Thanks for the compliment on the boat David!

  • 16 Jan 2016 20:51
    Reply # 3763669 on 3763388
    Deleted user

    I harvested a Christmas tree from a golf course many, many years ago.  I'm still feeling guilty so I don't think the Post Office/flagpole thing is a good idea for me :-)

    Seriously, flagpoles are pretty expensive and I don't think stout enough for the short mast I will be making unless I buy a longer one and cut some off.  The extrusions on the other hand are far more reasonable in price.  I would bond them together with aircraft quality epoxy I can get from contacts of mine, and will use aircraft Cherry rivets.  It will all hold well enough based on my structural experience with aircraft in the past.

    Where I need help is with the stress calculations.  The righting moment of this barge at 30 deg heel is a ridiculously high value - somewhere around 25000 ft/lbs - I think - since I'm unsure of the calculation with regard to that either.  So the mast needs to be pretty strong, but as light as I can get away with too, since it will be up and down often dealing with the bridges here.

  • 16 Jan 2016 20:41
    Reply # 3763648 on 3763388
    Alan Jones wrote:

    Any help and consideration is greatly appreciated.

    Best Regards,

    Alan

    Alan,

    First, I like what you're doing with the hull. Very suitable for the Fraser River and the Strait of Georgia (on its better days!).

    But, looking back through your blog, I see you made a model of a junk rig with two equal sails, and this is the way that I'd go. Smaller sails on smaller diameter masts, in tabernacles at a slight angle so that the masts can fall in towards each other...

    However, if you stick with the one big mainsail, I think you need a taller mast. Bear in mind that you need to lift from the middle of the yard, and the angle between halyard and mast shouldn't exceed 30˚. Even so, there will need to be more balance area at the throat.

    You found the Ewing tapered poles, which would be my favourite, and the 7in diameter x 3/16in wall model would be perfect for a smaller sail. Otherwise, it's difficult to find 7in tubes. I think I would want 8in x 3/16in to carry a 506 sq ft sail.

    You've realised that you need a slow-tapered conical section between tubes of different diameters to get the sail to drop, and I would find this a difficult and skilled metal-working operation. But if you want to go this way, then, for example, a 6in tube will fit within a 6in pipe very nicely, as the nominal diameter is outside on the former and inside on the latter. 6in pipe has a .280in wall and 6.625in outside diameter (you'll probably be buying from somewhere like Alaskan Copper, I would guess).  This would tend to indicate two equal sails of up to 300 sq ft. 

    I hope that helps.

  • 16 Jan 2016 20:04
    Reply # 3763610 on 3763388
    Deleted user
    I guess I'd have to ask the question, "why not use a flagpole?" I searched all over for the fabled "appropriate extrusion" to do a mast repair, and found that they were scarce, if non-existent. I located a piece that may have worked, but it would have required machining to make it fit, which added quite a few pennies to the cost. The appropriate aircraft-style rivets aren't inexpensive, either, and the rivet squeeze costs dearly.

    You likely don't want to use stainless rivets. A friend owns a Morgan ketch that had hardware applied with stainless, and is facing a very expensive spar repair because of the resulting galvanic corrosion. As you're in fresh water, you might have better luck, however.

    Flagpoles can be found in front of just about any Post Office or municipal building, although you have to be pretty subtle to harvest one without being noticed.


  • 16 Jan 2016 18:30
    Message # 3763388
    Deleted user

    Hello all,

    I am working out a rig for my sailing houseboat.  It includes a low aspect ratio sail of 506 s.f. with a mast extending 25'4" above the tabernacle.  The boat has a huge righting moment since it is a box barge 10'8" in beam and 34 feet long.  I'm looking at using two lengths of extrusion for the mast, a lower section 15 feet long of 7" diameter .125 wall thickness 6061-T6 aluminium and an upper section telescoping into it of 16 feet by 6" diameter and .125 wall thickness.  The difference between O.D of upper section and I.D of lower section would be compensated with a short piece of suitable extrusion.  The joints would be epoxy bonded and riveted.  More details are here:

    http://junkrighouseboat.blogspot.ca/2016/01/a-yawl-rig-proposal.html

    Am I out of the park here?  I could go with 1/4" wall thickness on the lower section...

    Any help and consideration is greatly appreciated.


    Best Regards,

    Alan

       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

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