Single point sheeting?

  • 30 Apr 2017 20:33
    Reply # 4792700 on 3758953
    Or have you considered the system described in last month's magazine on the dinghy "Ah-Sup". If the self adjusting portion had it's lower end led along the boom and down the mast into the cockpit to it's own cleat, the twist could be controlled as easily as the halyard when reefing without awkward fiddling at the end of the lowest batten/boom. But I think that would only be useful if the sheeting power requirement was low. Like on a dinghy with small sail area or alot of balance forward of the mast, like a split rig with lower sheet loads. I'm going to try it when I get my dinghy finally ready in the hope that I will only need a single sheet as per Ah-Sup.
    Last modified: 30 Apr 2017 20:34 | Anonymous member
  • 30 Apr 2017 20:02
    Reply # 4792675 on 3758953
    Deleted user

    For a day-sailer . . . I envision a sheet's bitter end attached to the leech end of the uppermost batten (the batten immediately below the yard).  The sheet is run downward through pulley blocks attached to the leech end of each batten below it.  From the pulley block on the leech end of the lowest batten, the working end of the sheet would run forward along this batten to another block placed mid-span and directed downward into the cockpit.  Is this simple system undesirable in practice?  Or is it not so simple?!!!  

  • 17 Jan 2016 01:09
    Reply # 3763853 on 3759161
    Deleted user
    Arne Kverneland wrote: Any others?

    Arne

    Two more:

    1/Changing to a single sheet multiplies the strain in the sailplan by 6 or 7 fold over a junk rig. Those multiple spans on a junk spread the load to each batten making it a low stress system. With a single sheet there are no use for battens at all, just remove them, then you end up with a lug sail.

    2/ Without spans, the unique junk ability to reef is lost. I think a single sheet would let the sail fan up in every gust, not just in a chinese jibe.

  • 16 Jan 2016 00:40
    Reply # 3762233 on 3762224
    Deleted user
    Oscar Fröberg wrote:

    Thanks for the insightful replies! I just had a random thought and instead of thinking it through myself I let you guys do the work. :p Yard and boom strength is one issue, the other is what happens once you start taking in the first reef. Bottom line is that you either choose junk or lug, not a combo, as they don't mate well but do their own role splendidly.

    Next question would be whether someone has used a hybrid rig like a schooner with a junk main and lug foresail, perhaps one that also has a jib?

    Oscar,

    If you look at old Vietnamese sailing craft, they often had a bewildering combination of lug and junk rigs seemingly at random, and often on the same boat. I'm sure the reasoning behind them appeared sound to some person at some time. 

  • 16 Jan 2016 00:23
    Reply # 3762224 on 3758953

    Thanks for the insightful replies! I just had a random thought and instead of thinking it through myself I let you guys do the work. :p Yard and boom strength is one issue, the other is what happens once you start taking in the first reef. Bottom line is that you either choose junk or lug, not a combo, as they don't mate well but do their own role splendidly.

    Next question would be whether someone has used a hybrid rig like a schooner with a junk main and lug foresail, perhaps one that also has a jib?

  • 15 Jan 2016 19:33
    Reply # 3761863 on 3758953
    Deleted user

    I have some experience with lug rigs. However, Michael Storer is perhaps the leading light in the lug rig community, and there is a vast amount of technical information out there for rigging and racing his popular Goat Island Skiff. As Arne observed, downhaul/vang/kicking strap tensions need to be very high with a balanced lug sail. Mr. Storer recommends Dyneema line for the kicking strap/downhaul as well as the halyard.

    Yards for lugs need to be beefier than those I see recommended for junk rigs. While the lug rig shares some strong similarities with the junk rig, there are fairly significant differences as well.

    In my opinion, both systems have distinct advantages over Marconi rigs. However, I would suggest where ease of reefing is a primary concern, it's best to take an a fairly classic approach with a junk rig. For applications where ease of reefing is outweighed by ease of line handling, and in smaller vessels, a balanced lug has a great deal to recommend it, including significantly less spaghetti in the cockpit. 

    It's interesting to note that "Mystery" a 37' Cornish Lugger sailed from Cornwall to Melbourne, Australia 1854. She made the 11,800 nautical mile trip in 116 days, which was really "hauling the mail." In fact, she was commissioned to do just that between Cape Town and Melbourne. British Adventurer Pete Goss recreated the voyage in 2008-2009. There is some inspiring footage of "Spirit of Mystery" available on Youtube

    Last modified: 15 Jan 2016 19:46 | Deleted user
  • 14 Jan 2016 21:01
    Reply # 3759161 on 3758953
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Oscar,

    I suggest two other benefits with staying with Chinese style sheets:

    • You get away with a much lighter boom. The forces needed to control twist with a vang/kick (plus a sheet track for that western sheet?) would call for a real boom. Then there would be much harder loads on the mast lift and yard as well.
    •  The Chinese sheets lets you reef the sail without having to tie the sail to the boom, which you would have to with the sheet tied only to the boom.

    Any others?

    Arne

    Last modified: 16 Jan 2016 15:05 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 14 Jan 2016 19:41
    Message # 3758953

    The balanced lug sail manages well with a single point sheet. I have no experience with lug sails but I assume twist can be controlled with a kicking strap (or sheeting point)? The question is, couldn't a junk sail also do away with just one sheeting point?

    As far as I see it, the advantage of having multiple sheeting points on the junk rig is that twist can be (more or less) exact. On the other hand, after you choose your sheeting method the twist is defined and static. Unless you have upper and lower spans that is, which gives you more tuning options. But, what's to stop you from just having one a single sheet, like the lug sail does?

    Last modified: 14 Jan 2016 19:42 | Anonymous member
       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

                                                              Site contents © the Junk Rig Association and/or individual authors

Powered by Wild Apricot Membership Software