Maximum boat length for a JR sloop?

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  • 10 Aug 2015 19:55
    Reply # 3473451 on 3406708

    Well, I took my 30-foot LOD cutter, displacement 4.5 tons, to Ullapool over the last few days, for installation of her junk rig.  Wind dead astern, six to seven, to Gairloch.  I dodged in there while a forecast nine went through overnight.  Then six or seven, maybe a touch of eight, dead astern or out on the quarter, from Gairloch to Ullapool, with quite a big sea.  Anyone who has ever single-handed a bermudan cutter in these conditions will know what a terrible b****** of a rig it is.  My now sail, by Chris Scanes, approx. 48 square metres+, was due to arrive in Ullapool today. Dan Johnson of the Badger Hestur showed me the new hollow mast he is making.  He then took me aboard Hestur, which is the first time I have ever actually been on a junk-rigged boat.  While we lay at the mooring, he hoisted the foresail with shockingly effortless ease in a fresh breeze.  If I can't hoist my sail to the top by hand, I will happily use one of my existing halyard or sheet winches to do so.  Further reports in due course ..... 

  • 10 Aug 2015 10:11
    Reply # 3472714 on 3406708
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    But then there is Peregrine, see NL 48. She was soon given an electric halyard winch. This is the fine thing with the junkrig. Since it is controlled only by pulling on strings, one can scale up the rig quite a lot, just by adding winches.

    Arne

  • 10 Aug 2015 08:45
    Reply # 3472665 on 3406708

    Hi Matt,

    Arcadian has a 500 square foot foresail and a 700 square foot main. I have electric winches in the cockpit to get the sails up. If someone stands at the mast and hauls from there both sails can be raised by hand, but it is an effort and by the time both sails are up you have developed a bit of a sweat!!

      Arcadian weighs seventeen tons and if you allocate 10 tons to the main and 7 to the foresail she matches fairly closely to the previous comments on sail area to weight ratio. I would say that seven to eight tons is about the limit for a single sail junk, and seven hundred square feet is about the maximum I would consider in a sail.

    David.

  • 16 Jul 2015 12:18
    Reply # 3435696 on 3406708

    Hi, Annie, thanks for your interest.  No, no, that's not a forestay, that's a glitch in the drawing.  I don't intend ever, ever again to have to deal with headsails!  Sail area will be about 510 square feet, with about 8% camber in the (lower) panels on 4 and a half tons displacement.  If that won't move her around in the light, fine, live with it!  I will keep the bowsprit for now, 'cos keeping it is easier than removing it.  It might be useful for hoisting day marks.  And if I am ever (again) becalmed off a harbour with dusk falling, no engine to call on, and after two or three days without sleep, then I might try a cruising-chute sort of thing, just to get me in.  But not, ever, otherwise.  Cheers.

  • 15 Jul 2015 03:27
    Reply # 3434235 on 3406708
    Gosh, that's a scary photo of the boat on the Barrier.  She looks like she was lucky to escape.

    On your sketch, you appear to be keeping a forestay.  I'd be interested in your thinking on this. 


  • 12 Jul 2015 17:59
    Reply # 3431040 on 3406708

    Photograph of boat and illustration of new junk rig have now been posted in my Profile.  Many thanks for the instructions!

  • 10 Jul 2015 06:00
    Reply # 3428607 on 3407828
    Iain Grigor wrote:I would post informative

    illustrations here, but I don't know how to. If anybody is interested in seeing these illustrations, they should e-mail me.  I will then e-mail the illustrations back, and they can be posted on my computer-illiterate behalf! 

    Hi Iain - good luck with the conversion.

    If you want to post photos, they are best done in your Profile, because you can post as many as you want and people will always be able to find them, without trawling through the gallery or postings.  To do this, you go to the top right of the 'page' and click on View Profile.  This opens a page with My Profile on it, giving you the option to create a photo album by clicking on Member photo albums.  You then click on Add album and choose a name for your new album.  Click on Submit and then on Upload Photos.  This will take you to a menu showing 5 Browse buttons.  When you click on one of these, you will be taken to your computers file system.  You look through this for the photos that you want (probably in My Pictures) and click on the ones you want to show us.  They will download - be patient - and you then have a nice wee photo album to share with the rest of us!

  • 28 Jun 2015 18:28
    Reply # 3407828 on 3406708

    I am converting my boat to junk sloop this summer, camber-panel sail by Chris Scanes.

    The work is being done by Dan Johnson of Hestur: the sail-plan has been given the once-

    over by Arne Kverneland and Robin Blain.  We have more or less lifted the sail-plan

    and the mast-scantlings from the information about Johanna and Edmund Dantes on

    Arne's pages on this site: ie, the sail is about 48 square metres.  The boat is 30 feet

    LOD, and the displacement is 4 and a half (Canadian) tons.  I would post informative

    illustrations here, but I don't know how to. If anybody is interested in seeing these

    illustrations, they should e-mail me.  I will then e-mail the illustrations back, and they

    can be posted on my computer-illiterate behalf!  The boat, which is centre-cockpit,

    could not take a schooner rig, because of her internal arrangements of tanks, etc.

  • 28 Jun 2015 04:12
    Reply # 3407180 on 3406708
    Deleted user

    Very interesting, thanks.

    Listen to me; I've been back in Oz for two weeks, haven't secured a job yet, haven't sold Mariposa, and here i am dreaming about the next boat. This surely is some kind of disease...

    I've been looking at older boats around 9 to 10 metres. There's a lovely, but dilapidated, Hereshoff 30 on ebay, re-listed at aound $4,500.

    As you say, part of the appeal of a JR is simplicity, so i'm reluctant to have a boat so large that it needs a schooner rig.

    But maybe my concerns are ill founded? They're certainly ill informed.

    Matt

  • 28 Jun 2015 00:42
    Reply # 3407090 on 3406708

    I think the hull displacement is the key figure here.  Arion displaces 5 tonnes (the plans say 3.5 but even if my builder had not left the frames in I doubt that was a realistic figure) and my sail area is 35.7 sq m.  I can hoist it half way hand over hand without stress, and have occasionally grunted it all the way to the top with my 3:1 halyard, but usually put it on the manual winch for the last 2 panels and occasionally, when I am feeling less robust, the last 3.  An electric winch or something like a Winchrite (electric winch handle) would make the task effortless.  With something like this I think you could hoist a 60 sq m sail easily.  Reefing and furling are easy, but perhaps gybing in strong winds would be a bit scary.  I remember one of Ketil's crew (Marie G) saying that he never gybes his sail, always choosing to put the bows through the wind.  This might be a bit of an issue in boisterous sea, though you could always start the engine.  I did just that one dark night a couple of years ago when the wind was blowing 30 knots, the seas were 3m and steep, and the skipper close to exhaustion after a snorting 12 hours running square with 2 panels reefed.  (Because I was coastal cruising, I could not rest in my bunk.  If I had been offshore I would have dropped an extra panel, or even 2, and gone to bed.)  Doing the "chicken-gybe" was completely stress free. 

    So I think you could put a single sail rig on an 8 tonne boat, maybe even 10 tonnes.  LOA would depend on the hull type.  On a more traditional style of boat, this would suggest a LOA of about 11m, which is a good size for a singlehander/couple.  Hal and Margaret Roth favoured this size of boat.  The Pardey's Taelisin had a similar displacement at 30 feet, as did the Hiscock's Wanderer 111.  There is a 10m version of the Tom Thumb design that would have plenty of room!  I'd prefer to take advantage of size though and go for something a bit sleeker, though Arion is a wonderful boat downwind at sea, fast, powerful and comfortable.  In flat water it ghosts like a big dinghy, but in a developed sea you need to crack off on a reach.  Digressing here, but all these considerations are important, not just LOA.  Good luck Matt!

    Last modified: 28 Jun 2015 00:44 | Anonymous member
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