Storfidra 25 junk conversion mast step and partners questions!

  • 15 May 2015 08:48
    Reply # 3344369 on 3320948
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Jonny,

    I have used mast caps from webbing on two of my (smallest) sailboats, Broremann and Frøken Sørensen. They have worked fine. Thanks to the hoseclamps, there is no chance the mast cap can twist.  With much less intense sunshine up here at 59° N, I felt no need for that extra sun hat, but I can see Annie’s point with it.

    One reason for making the mast cap from aluminium on my new Ingeborg, is that I want to be able to climb that mast. I know, I know; the webbing would be good enough, but those stout welded-on metal ears just feels more secure, somehow...

    Arne

    Last modified: 15 May 2015 08:55 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 15 May 2015 05:24
    Reply # 3344236 on 3320948

     
    Well in that case…fantastic! It should do well!

    I went to 2 metal supply houses today. The top of my mast is 4.5 inches ….the ONLY size no one seems to carry!  I still have a few ideas to investigate before going the fabricator route. 

  • 15 May 2015 04:33
    Reply # 3344208 on 3342796
    Jonny Kaplan wrote:

    I looked on your blog at the web masthead fitting. It looks great , and I'm sure it will be strong enough …. but , I would be worried about U/V degradation. I would think it would only last about 2 seasons here in California.  Is it just a cap? or screwed in? Either way .. please keep an eye on it!!!!

    Johnny, we're near the hole in the ozone layer in NZ!  What the photo doesn't show is the little Odyssey cap I made for it, to keep the sun off :-)  It is essentially just a seized into place, but the tri-colour light is screwed to the mast cap and the screws got through the webbing, so it has no tendency to twist.
  • 14 May 2015 01:21
    Reply # 3342796 on 3320948

    Haha! The funny thing is: I've had this boat for a few months … and bought her with the definite intention of converting to Junk. I have not even sailed her with her Bermudan rig.  All of my "Bermudan" sailing buddies think I'm nuts. But … I've sailed plenty of Sloops , Cutters and Ketches. ……. This boat is MEANT to be a Junk! Ha!


    I looked on your blog at the web masthead fitting. It looks great , and I'm sure it will be strong enough …. but , I would be worried about U/V degradation. I would think it would only last about 2 seasons here in California.  Is it just a cap? or screwed in? Either way .. please keep an eye on it!!!!

    Last modified: 14 May 2015 01:22 | Anonymous member
  • 14 May 2015 00:18
    Reply # 3342759 on 3341498
    Jonny Kaplan wrote:The masthead fitting from webbing sounds quite interesting! I am sorry hear about the eyebolts not working. I read the story of your conversion of Joshua / Fantail with  interest …especially since our boats are similar in size.

    On Badger , your masts were hollow correct? So, did the U bolts and eye bolts just fasten on the inside of the mast? Or , all the way through the mast?

    No, the masts were solid.  The big galvanised eyebolt went right through the mast with a washer and nut on the other end.  The U-bolts were set in epoxy, following the Gougeon Bros's instructions.

    As far as a topmast , I did have that thought …ESPECIALLY since I found a VERY NICE, already made , Stainless steel masthead fitting at a marine swap meet  , practically for free. It would need a few more tabs welded on ….BUT , the problem is that the inner diameter of the fitting is 2.5 inches

    Sounds a bit small to me: someone with better engineering skills may comment on this.

    , and the bottom diameter of my mast is 7 inches. According to PJR that was just a wee bit too small…so , it kind of scared me off.  It's a shame….because it is very nicely made! Once I figure out how to upload to this site …I'll post some pics. I'm looking at it now …GRRR.

    Within the meaning of the act, you can't upload to the fora - it's data greedy, too, so not recommended even if you can find a work round (our actual website data is limited, members can put heaps of stuff on their individual albums.)  To upload to your profile, you need to click on 'View profile' at the top right of the screen, then click on 'Member Photo Albums' on the links next to 'Edit Profile', then press the 'Add Album' button.  (These aren't links by the way - otherwise you'd end up in my profile! 

    I also saw Arne's fantastic , Aluminum fitting in his files…as always NICE WORK!

    All of the welding quotes I've gotten have been higher than I expected ….but I willing to pay…..if I have to! hahah!

    They always are.  That's why I like Arne's idea of doing most of the work oneself.

    Today's great news is……(drum roll)….. I purchased my mast!  Now……if I can sell my old rig to make room for it!
    Best of luck.  Fortunately there are still some misguided people around looking for a bermudian rig!
  • 13 May 2015 05:32
    Reply # 3341498 on 3341239
    Annie Hill wrote:

    I've posted a photo in my photo albums under 'useful photos', showing the arrangement at the foot of my mast.  You could always go for a larger rigging screw, of course.  Another advantage of this arrangement is it also helps to stop the mast rotating.  However, with my mast being well raked forward, the bottom of the mast is cut to match (the step is horizontal) which, at least in theory, works as a cam to stop the mast rotating.

    I've made my current mast head fitting from webbing - after all, they use the stuff to haul boats out.  But I've only had about 500 miles with it, so would say it's too early to judge its success. 

    Arne makes his masthead fittings out of alloy, cutting it all himself and then asking the local TIG expert to weld it up (I hope I've remembered this correctly, Arne?), which seems a cost-effective way to go, without the risk of perforating the top of the mast. 

    Another possibility, of course, is to make a wee wooden topmast and attach your fittings to that, in whatever way seems suitable.  You don't need to screw it in place: just make the part that fits into the mast nice and long and slather on plenty of Simpsons Marine Glue, or similar.  If you're really concerned about it rotating, you could build lugs onto the cap and match them with notches in the alloy tube.

    On Badger, we used a galvanised eye-bolt for the halyard and stainless steel U-bolts for the mast lift, topping lifts and burgee halyard or knotted to them.  As far as I know, they are still going strong.  When I tried a similar arrangement for Fantail's halyard: actually an eye screwed onto a bolt set into the wooden topmast, I used stainless steel and it sheared.  Apparently it was a stupid thing to do, but I knew no better.

     Ahh …found it. Yes , that looks great Annie! Actually my idea about the 2 "L" brackets and a through bolt  are somewhat similar …and just some added security. 

    The masthead fitting from webbing sounds quite interesting! I am sorry hear about the eyebolts not working. I read the story of your conversion of Joshua / Fantail with  interest …especially since our boats are similar in size.

    On Badger , your masts were hollow correct? So, did the U bolts and eye bolts just fasten on the inside of the mast? Or , all the way through the mast?

    As far as a topmast , I did have that thought …ESPECIALLY since I found a VERY NICE, already made , Stainless steel masthead fitting at a marine swap meet  , practically for free. It would need a few more tabs welded on ….BUT , the problem is that the inner diameter of the fitting is 2.5 inches , and the bottom diameter of my mast is 7 inches. According to PJR that was just a wee bit too small…so , it kind of scared me off.  It's a shame….because it is very nicely made! Once I figure out how to upload to this site …I'll post some pics. I'm looking at it now …GRRR.

    I also saw Arne's fantastic , Aluminum fitting in his files…as always NICE WORK!

    All of the welding quotes I've gotten have been higher than I expected ….but I willing to pay…..if I have to! hahah!

    I'm heading to Southern California tomorrow , and while there , will stop by Industrial Metals , and see if I can find some scrap stuff that I can possibly cut and trim myself before taking it to welder.

    We are GETTING THERE…slowly , but surely!

    Today's great news is……(drum roll)….. I purchased my mast!  Now……if I can sell my old rig to make room for it!


    JK


    Last modified: 13 May 2015 06:51 | Anonymous member
  • 13 May 2015 00:53
    Reply # 3341239 on 3340237
    Jonny Kaplan wrote:

    hmm. I would love to see a picture of your arrangement if possible Annie?!?! I have thought about the idea of ANY holes in the mast.... And since we are on the subject: I was just about to ask everyone's thoughts on THIS idea:

    Studying PJR, it suggests that for an alloy mast.... You Could do any with a masthead fitting altogether .... And just use eye plates and such riveted to the mast. This would obviously bring the costs WAY down.  But, just off the top of my head, I'd need to drill at least 10 holes in the mast for fittings ... And maybe 4 more to secure a wooden "cap" which I could mount the light and antenna on. The top of the mast is 4.5 inches so, I could actually get my hand inside and fasten with nylon locking nuts as well. ( instead of rivets which seem untrustworthy)

    I've posted a photo in my photo albums under 'useful photos', showing the arrangement at the foot of my mast.  You could always go for a larger rigging screw, of course.  Another advantage of this arrangement is it also helps to stop the mast rotating.  However, with my mast being well raked forward, the bottom of the mast is cut to match (the step is horizontal) which, at least in theory, works as a cam to stop the mast rotating.

    I've made my current mast head fitting from webbing - after all, they use the stuff to haul boats out.  But I've only had about 500 miles with it, so would say it's too early to judge its success. 

    Arne makes his masthead fittings out of alloy, cutting it all himself and then asking the local TIG expert to weld it up (I hope I've remembered this correctly, Arne?), which seems a cost-effective way to go, without the risk of perforating the top of the mast. 

    Another possibility, of course, is to make a wee wooden topmast and attach your fittings to that, in whatever way seems suitable.  You don't need to screw it in place: just make the part that fits into the mast nice and long and slather on plenty of Simpsons Marine Glue, or similar.  If you're really concerned about it rotating, you could build lugs onto the cap and match them with notches in the alloy tube.

    On Badger, we used a galvanised eye-bolt for the halyard and stainless steel U-bolts for the mast lift, topping lifts and burgee halyard or knotted to them.  As far as I know, they are still going strong.  When I tried a similar arrangement for Fantail's halyard: actually an eye screwed onto a bolt set into the wooden topmast, I used stainless steel and it sheared.  Apparently it was a stupid thing to do, but I knew no better.

  • 12 May 2015 16:14
    Reply # 3340627 on 3320948

    Good to know Arne. Thanks!

  • 12 May 2015 09:18
    Reply # 3340337 on 3320948
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Jonny,

    unlike in the Yahoo group, here you may go back and edit your own postings. I (need to) do that all the time. 

    Arne

  • 12 May 2015 06:23
    Reply # 3340259 on 3320948

    Sorry about my typos! I'm using my iPhone.

    I was saying with eye plates you could do away with a masthead fitting altogether.

    And the word strength..... Not trength !!

       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
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