Bermudan vs Junk Rig - a comparison

  • 10 Jan 2015 09:04
    Reply # 3187640 on 3181852
    Slieve McGalliard wrote:I have seen a number of very experienced junk rig sailors sail my rig and not get good performance. They always seem to stall it by oversheeting, and some could not be persuaded to ease sheets.

    I have come to the conclusion that flat sails and sails with flat entry to the camber seem to need to be oversheeted to produce any drive from the high pressure on the windward side, ignoring the loss of the low pressure on the leeward side. Some may be happy to sail like that, and it matters little with a flat sail as knife edge separation kills the low pressure, but it is death to a well cambered sail and robs it of its high lift/ drag potential.

    Hi Slieve,

    Thanks for your response... I've moved over to the other forum thread (PBO something'r'other), where I've asked about the role of twist control of camber draught (Reddish theory), both in general and for SJR in particular.

    I can visualize what you're saying, here, and it makes intuitive sense to me. It seems that the attack angle of the jiblets is the key, and any over-sheeting anywhere along the sail would detract from optimal. This would rule out twist as a lift enhancing control.

    Of course, one could always de-power the SJR by over-sheeting, as a maneuver. But I see that as a whole sail maneuver, in general, rather than merely inducing twist.

    I'm guessing that Reddish twist theory (as I understand it) applies strongly to flat-cut and fanned sails, not sure about standard, cambered sails, but probably not at all to SJR.

    I look forward to your comments on the other thread!

    Dave Z

  • 06 Jan 2015 11:53
    Reply # 3181852 on 3180594

    Hi Dave (Z)

    If you look in the thread mentioned by Chris you will see my earlier comment on this. It is always going to be difficult to get a good comparison as no-one is going to put an average Bermudan rig into the testing arena. They will always find a race tuned boat and racing helmsman.

    I am not criticizing Edward for not being a racing helmsman as he has worked hard to understand and get the best out of the rig. However I have seen a number of very experienced junk rig sailors sail my rig and not get good performance. They always seem to stall it by oversheeting, and some could not be persuaded to ease sheets. I have come to the conclusion that flat sails and sails with flat entry to the camber seem to need to be oversheeted to produce any drive from the high pressure on the windward side, ignoring the loss of the low pressure on the leeward side. Some may be happy to sail like that, and it matters little with a flat sail as knife edge separation kills the low pressure, but it is death to a well cambered sail and robs it of its high lift/ drag potential. 

    To get the right combination of boats and sailors together for a representative comparison test is not easy, but it is something we must strive for.

    Cheers, Slieve.

  • 05 Jan 2015 11:21
    Reply # 3181052 on 3180594
    Deleted user

    This article was discussed at some length on publication in August 2014 in this thread.

  • 05 Jan 2015 05:08
    Reply # 3180839 on 3180594

    Good article with excellent pictures!

    It compares two SPLINTER hulls, one rigged with tricked out Bermudan Rig and the other with Slieve McGalliard's Split Junk Rig (implemented by others) put through their paces in controlled proximity.

    Unfortunately, the SJR boat was carrying an extra 100kg of ballast, which amounts to a significant handicap.

    Still, a very rare, head to head comparison, and well worth the read!

    Slieve, if you're listening, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

    Dave Z

    Last modified: 05 Jan 2015 05:24 | Anonymous member
  • 04 Jan 2015 18:52
    Message # 3180594

    Don't know if this has been posted here before, but at least I haven't seen it. PBO did a comparison between Edward Hooper's Amiina and a Bermudan counterpart:

    http://www.pbo.co.uk/seamanship/bermudan-rig-vs-junk-rig/

    No big surprises in the outcome.

       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

                                                              Site contents © the Junk Rig Association and/or individual authors

Powered by Wild Apricot Membership Software