What are the iconic junks?

  • 19 Dec 2014 22:47
    Reply # 3173338 on 3172751
    Deleted user

    I had the same dilemma when were looking for a design. Chose a Benford dory because it was "proven". Annie and Pete had sailed Badger all over the Atlantic, including to the near Antarctic and back. But I'm not saying it is the "best" design, it serves a purpose though and the fact that the boat does not "roll" in a rolly anchorage is a big plus. But if I was to start again (and because I'm a little envious of boats that don't heel as much) maybe I would go for a large sharpie (Tad Roberts has a good one), because cruising under sail can be a very slow activity (ask all the bermudan sailors who motor everywhere..) and extra performance wouldn't hurt.

    I think those Jonques de Plaisance boats are great candidates, all that deck space.. Frenchmen seem to be sailing those boats far and wide. Definitely proven. I'm not a fan of Sprays though, people say they are "proven" because of Slocum, but he just took what he was given. There are far better performing modern hulls around. Also I believe the junk rig can suit most any hull, if I had the finances back when, I'd find a used Beneteau and slap a JR on that. They'd make fine junks.

    As for Bertie the junk spray, the owner of her started a thread on another forum saying he didn't think "baggy" sails work (his term for Arne's cambered junk sail), which is a bit silly when in fact Bertie has a pair of deeply cambered sails in front of the mast, namely "jibs". Anyway, jibs defeat the purpose of a junk, the power of the rig is the ability to do all sail handling from the cockpit.  Cheers and good luck with your search.

    Last modified: 19 Dec 2014 22:58 | Deleted user
  • 19 Dec 2014 16:38
    Reply # 3173097 on 3172751

    China Cloud, for sure. Totally iconic, in this part of the world, the Pacific Northwest. But not what you're looking for, as she's very much a sheltered, inshore waters kind of boat.

    No, I think you should be choosing the right kind of boat for the task, and then converting to junk rig, since ready-made junk-rigged boats fit for blue water voyaging are few and far between, on the second-hand market.

    For a couple with one young child, the Benford 36ft/37ft6in sailing dory might suit; for a couple with two young children, a length of 40ft would be better, and there, I can't think of any designs that stand out as being iconic.

  • 19 Dec 2014 15:56
    Reply # 3173081 on 3172751
    Deleted user

    Heh.. you are right Ketil. I assume you are referring to Bertie rather than one of the other boats mentioned. In which case, there is at least one beholder who disagrees!

    Last modified: 19 Dec 2014 15:57 | Deleted user
  • 19 Dec 2014 15:26
    Reply # 3173065 on 3172751

    Why on earth does Junk rigged boats have to be so UGLY! (OK, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder). We have a saying in Norwegian that goes: Det er mye stygt i sjøen.

    God jul, anyway.  

  • 19 Dec 2014 10:36
    Reply # 3172936 on 3172751
    Deleted user
    Good question – made me think a bit. Being all about the rig, it's not a question which arises much in this association, though a few members (Arne, for instance) have tried to emphasise the importance of matching the hull to the rig. This was also always emphasised by Tom Colvin, who insisted that the rig and hull had to be designed as a package, or at least matched carefully enough that the best could got from both. His designs could certainly be called 'iconic'. The same is true on this side of the pond of the  'Jonques de Plaisance' of Dmitri LeForestier.

    Many of the rest of us tend to put a junk rig on whatever boat we own or have access to at the time. Although this works well, due to the versatility of the rig, few of these have become 'iconic'. The Sunbird 32 comes to mind, along with the various Freedom designs of Gary Hoyt which are near-ideal for conversion, having already been equipped with very robust unstayed masts.

    If I had to choose an 'iconic' junk I guess it would be Badger and her sisters from the board of Jay Benford. In the hands of Pete and Annie Hill who built and rigged her, this boat rapidly became a 'junk icon' and did much to popularise the junk rig - and many others have taken this, or a similar path.

    I guess my best advice would be to scan the myriad information available on this site, perhaps starting with the 'Boat of the Month' feature. Here you'll find lots of candidates. The following stand out to me:

    A fistful of badgers (and a baby) – Zebedee, Ashiki, Hestur, Blue Moon and Elsie N. At least two other members are currently building this design.

    A Kingfisher 22 – a design which emerged from Blondie Hasler's collaboration with Kingfisher to produce bone of the first 'production' Western junks.

    Tin Hau – David and Lynda Chidell's Colvin-designed 54' steel junk.

    Mingming - Roger Taylor's little unsinkable 21' Corribee which has sailed many ocean miles, mostly in the high latitudes of the Arctic.

    Malliemac, the sister ship to David Tyler's Tystie – a design emerging from a collaboration between David Tyler and the late David Thomas. David's subsequent award-winning ocean passages in Tystie speak volumes for this as a great blend of rig and hull design.

    Your question is very open and invites very subjective responses. Apologies if mine is one such. Finally, though not iconic in the sense of being generally accepted as archetypal, I offer my own subjective choice – Bertie, a genuine replica of Slocum's Spray (if such a thing can exist). In many ways I see this as the closest of Western matches to the type of Chinese vessel for which the rig was developed. Based on a fishing vessel whose working style and location is similar to traditional Chinese fishing it is a similar type: extremely heavy, beamy, shallow draught, with (originally) very low freeboard, bluff bow and stern. One of very few rigs capable of driving such a vessel effectively in all conditions is the junk rig chosen by her owner and builder, Peter Bailey, including a magnificent (and massive) Hong Kong style mainsail of 1,000 sq. ft. If I had to choose a Western junk which best matched the type of vessel on which the rig originated, this would be it.

  • 19 Dec 2014 00:04
    Message # 3172751
    Deleted user

    So, I'm searching for a junk for our family to do some long-term bluewater cruising in. Ideally I'm looking for  a center cockpit, steel hull would be nice... I keep coming across the Colvin Gazelle but there must be other "iconic" proven junks out there that would suit our purposes. Does anyone know of any? It will really help the search if i have a better idea of what I'm searching for! Thanks everyone

       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

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