Chinese Fishing Junks - Lines Plans

  • 22 Sep 2014 01:12
    Reply # 3104110 on 3102499

    Chris Galliene wrote:

    the sail on your favourite, like many 'northern' junks with this type of sail, has much more balance at the top of the sail than at the bottom - any ideas why this might be an advantage?
    Interesting: one of the things that forcibly struck me in the illustrations, was on how many of the rigs, the luff was exactly parallel with the mast, even when they had an extreme forward rake.


    I think the thing with these designs are that they are so far from what we are used to looking at (although, I'm making an assumption here that may be unwarranted), that I found myself picking up on one feature and then seeing if it was repeated or not.  I actually found the variety of shapes and concepts to be far too much to cope with all at once and well beyond my understanding.  For example, some of the rudders seem to be hardly supported and yet they provide all the lateral resistance and can be raised and lowered!
  • 19 Sep 2014 10:12
    Reply # 3102715 on 3102515
    Deleted user
    David Tyler wrote:

    The sheet, being steeply angled at the top of the leech, will not be very effective at controlling twist. With the yard at a shallow angle and suspended at its mid point, the greater amount of balance will offset this.

    Also on the sailplan on page 24 (pdf), note that there is a throat hauling parrel to peak up the yard. And the boom doesn't appear to be sheeted, which is strange.


    David

    Good point. To follow on, when running off the wind, presumably more balance would be introduced lower down the sail. However, the distribution of the fixed parrels doesn't appear to allow this - instead, the top of the sail appears to be the bit that is moved fore and aft - though this would require reefing from the bottom first, or the 'clew' drops into the boat.

    Alternatively, if the rake of the mast is variable, as it seems it might be from the simple sketch, perhaps the parrel distribution is explained, allowing the same set of the sail for varying mast rake.

    Last modified: 19 Sep 2014 10:14 | Deleted user
  • 19 Sep 2014 00:19
    Reply # 3102557 on 3102287
    My luck is in!  The Oracle is arriving this afternoon with his endless and accessible data supply.  I shall download both pdfs and thank you very much, Chris, for making them available. 

    I find these traditionally-shaped hulls very attractive and can imagine owning one myself.  Ideal for the many shallow harbours in this neck of the woods.  If only it were just a case of using the lines: alas, scantlings, construction details, etc all need to be worked out.

    But great stuff to dream about.


  • 18 Sep 2014 22:05
    Reply # 3102515 on 3102287

    The sheet, being steeply angled at the top of the leech, will not be very effective at controlling twist. With the yard at a shallow angle and suspended at its mid point, the greater amount of balance will offset this.

    Also on the sailplan on page 24 (pdf), note that there is a throat hauling parrel to peak up the yard. And the boom doesn't appear to be sheeted, which is strange.

  • 18 Sep 2014 21:38
    Reply # 3102499 on 3102287
    Deleted user

    OK - mine align to the same numbers.

    David, while on the subject, a question that ocurred to me the other day when looking at a similar junk sail - the sail on your favourite, like many 'northern' junks with this type of sail, has much more balance at the top of the sail than at the bottom - any ideas why this might be an advantage?

    One sometimes sees the same thing on illustrations of the big northern trading junks such as the Antung Trader, and it appears also on the illustration of the Lorcha in Solokoff - from which illustration I took the sailplan for my Delftship design.

    Last modified: 18 Sep 2014 21:58 | Deleted user
  • 18 Sep 2014 21:26
    Reply # 3102491 on 3102287

    That's page 23 in the PDF, but page 13 on the original paper copy.

  • 18 Sep 2014 21:10
    Reply # 3102481 on 3102287
    Deleted user

    David

    are you sure you have the page numbers correct? The one on p23 (#5 in Chinese Junks) has a LOA of 12.36m. Do you mean p.13?

    Last modified: 18 Sep 2014 21:12 | Deleted user
  • 18 Sep 2014 19:46
    Reply # 3102445 on 3102287

    Very many thanks, John, for making these available to us. It would take many long winter evenings of study to understand and evaluate all the different styles of hull and rig, but it would be time well spent.

    I've just had a very quick look through, and I still like the hull form on page 23 of Chinese Fishing Boats. It's possible to read the dimensions now, and this one is 11m LOA, 9m LWL, 3.47m beam (I think). Would make a very pretty yacht.

    Also, the one on page 34/35 catches my eye (9.26m LOA) as being suitable for building in sheet material - plywood, steel or alloy.


  • 18 Sep 2014 16:37
    Message # 3102287
    Deleted user

    John Kwong - a member in Guangdong, China - has today very kindly sent me pdf versions of two regional Fishing 'atlases' containing lines plans for many (nearly 200) traditional (and some modern) Chinese fishing vessels. These are a fascinating resource which should probably be transferred to the library pages, once copyright issues are clear.

    In the meantime, I have uploaded them to the 'box' - you can find them at Members Area->Your Files->Documents->Chris Gallienne->Chinese Junk Plans.


    These are rather large at 28 and 93MB, so if anyone can't download them but would like to see them, e-mail me.

    Many thanks, John!

    Chris

       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

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