Twisting multipart halyard

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  • 28 Aug 2014 02:18
    Reply # 3087906 on 3077862
    Deleted user

    Thanks, Graham.  May switch to double braid, given that Home Depot supplied me with decent stuff when I made the lazy jacks.  We didn't have much trouble eye splicing it....a gadget from New England Ropes, plus a harsh snowy Virginia winter....we redid them all.

  • 28 Aug 2014 01:35
    Reply # 3087888 on 3077862

    The way to coil a long rope is to pass it one way across the hand, and for the next coil to pass it the other way across the hand; thus forming something like a figure 8 coil, when finished. This doesn't put turns into the rope.

    Having said that, I simply stuff my halyard, a bit at a time, into a bag. This works. I don't often get a snag-up when I drop the sail in a hurry.

    My cockpit rope bags are nearing the end of their life. I'm wondering whether to make new ones, or make reels. H'mmm.

    While it's rarely a good thing to have a swivel head on a block, it's often a good thing to have a swivel on the end of a long rope, that is, the fixed end of a sheet or halyard. This can do nothing harmful, but if it rotates freely, can allow the rope to untwist itself.

  • 27 Aug 2014 23:49
    Reply # 3087851 on 3086151
    John Cornicelli wrote:

    What do you think?  Can choice of rope type, braided (cored) vs. twisted (3 part) help? I had problems with the twisted traditional rope on mainmast halyard and no problems with braided on the foremast halyard.


    Double braid seems to me much less likely to twist.  I'm intrigued by the 12 strand stuff but have not seen any.  I have long admired the handling characteristics of 8 strand Nylon anchor warp though.  It is too stretchy for halyards (but excellent therefore for anchoring).  If the polyester stuff has similar characteristics without the stretch it will be excellent, and much easier to splice.  I paid a professional to splice eyes in Aron's double braid upper topping lifts, but have used bowlines everywhere else.  I believe you lose some strength with a bowline (some say 50%) but the breaking strain of 10mm double braid is much higher than my rig will ever impose on it (36sq metre sail).  I've hammered the rig over 3000 miles without problems.
  • 27 Aug 2014 22:58
    Reply # 3087804 on 3077862
    Deleted user
    You might consider the relatively new 12-strand polyester line. I just finished a conversion to junk and had to buy new line to get the required lengths..main halyard, 3/8 inch. Advantages: cheap(er), available from fisherman suppliers, simpler (than braid) to splice, comparable breaking strengths to braid (thousands of pounds), so far not prone to twisting on a 5-part that has swivel blocks on the yard end. Oh, don't get the red colored line the dye comes off on your hands and smears the deck.
  • 27 Aug 2014 03:04
    Reply # 3086151 on 3077862
    Deleted user

    What do you think?  Can choice of rope type, braided (cored) vs. twisted (3 part) help? I had problems with the twisted traditional rope on mainmast halyard and no problems with braided on the foremast halyard.

  • 22 Aug 2014 09:14
    Reply # 3083653 on 3077862

    I just flake it any old way into the box, tail first.  It sort of snakes in, though certainly not in a strict figure of eight pattern.  I just let it fall where it wants.  More like stuffing, though I don't need to stuff it into my open-topped box.  I also flake my main-sheet this way with similar success.  I remember, when I was a boy, hearing some old salts talking of flaking anchor warp in a figure of eight in the chain locker, where a more orderly stowage of a heavier, stiffer warp might require it.  The soft, lighter ropes we use for halyards and sheets though do not seem to need it.

    Last modified: 22 Aug 2014 09:15 | Anonymous member
  • 21 Aug 2014 21:55
    Reply # 3083378 on 3077862
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Well, then climbers do it differently. The climber who taught me (he actually held a safety course in mast climbing for us engineers), showed us how to just stuff the rope in a canvas bag. No fancy figure eights, just stuffing , starting with the bitter end. I have used this method for over ten seasons in Johanna plus almost two seasons in Frøken Sørensen. When dropping sail the halyard leaves the bag with no snags, every time.

    Cheers, Arne

    PS 20140822: On Malena I didn’t know better, so I coiled the halyard, starting at the cleat and coiling towards the bitter end. I always coiled it clockwise. When I was to lower the sail, I placed an inverted bucket on the cockpit bench and then the coiled rope over it, such that the halyard would uncoil itself anti-clockwise. This worked quite well, as long as one stayed focused.

    On three of the Stavanger-junks; Samson, Edmond D and Marie G, the halyards are simply rolled up on reels, mounted at the rail. That works brilliantly well.

     

     

    Last modified: 22 Aug 2014 09:56 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 21 Aug 2014 15:41
    Reply # 3083087 on 3077862

    As I understand, climbers flake rope in a figure of 8, which avoids any turns, so should run freely.

  • 21 Aug 2014 09:47
    Reply # 3080359 on 3077862
    Deleted user
    I am most grateful for all the answers. As an interim solution I will work from the simplest to the more complicated to see me through the rest of the sailing season, beginning with eliminating the swivel at the yard.

    At the end of the season I will rethink the arrangement and take lessons from the wisdom contained above. Regaining a marina berth with the sail jammed at the masthead is not something I want to repeat. Other marina berth holders thought I was merely showing off the merits of the rig because I am the only Chinese rigged boat in the area!

    I have long stopped coiling ropes on my boats, preferring to flake. I have also talked to mountaineers, who know about ropes. When they throw a rope over a cliff face, it has got to unravel. The told me that coiled ropes may unravel, but too often they do not. Flaked ropes pretty well always unravel, they say.

    I first thought that twist in the halyard rope itself was responsible. I removed it, laid it out, untwisted it to the best of my ability and re-roved it - all to no avail. So I bought a new halyard, laid it out, untwisted it, roved it - again all to no avail. Annoying and expensive.

    I should have consulted on this forum first, so another lesson learned.

    Again, thank you all. Don


  • 20 Aug 2014 22:16
    Reply # 3079577 on 3077862

    Hi Don, I fully endorse the no swivels approach. I had all sorts of problems with Arcadian's halyards until I eliminated the swivels, all has been well since.

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