Truly a junk rig?

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  • 28 Apr 2014 09:17
    Reply # 1544170 on 1538031
    Deleted user
    I like to think of our boats being in the tradition of [b]Lorcha[/b] vessles, a combination of european hull lines and Chinese rigging. Very few designs, D. Forrestier being the exception, have anything to do with traditional Junks. Then again they where never intended as pleasure boats in the first place.  
  • 20 Apr 2014 06:44
    Reply # 1540937 on 1539253
    Chris Gallienne wrote:
    And it seems to me that Roger Taylor is maintaining this ethos admirably.
    Absolutely!  He is my hero (and that of many other people, I dare say).  I admire him immensely and envy the fact that he is apparently quite impervious to discomfort.  MInd over matter no doubt, but he has quite a mind!
    Last modified: 20 Apr 2014 06:47 | Anonymous member
  • 16 Apr 2014 22:44
    Reply # 1539253 on 1538031
    Deleted user
    I agree Annie.

    And it seems to me that Roger Taylor is maintaining this ethos admirably.
  • 16 Apr 2014 21:46
    Reply # 1539218 on 1538031
    I also like the phrase 'junk rig': apart from anything else, it keeps us honest.  It's hard to take yourself too seriously when you refer to your boat as a junk. I think Gary's definition: full-length battens to which sheets are attached sums it up well.  And yes, we each may have reservations about extreme variations on the theme, but we all pretty much know what we mean by junk rig.

    However, I think that the JRA should also be promoting the Hasler/McLeod ethos.  I remember talking to Jock McLeod before we fitted a pram hood to Badger.  He was quite shocked that we didn't have one, explaining that the ideas that he and Blondie had worked up, concluded in a three-fold concept: junk rig, wind-vane self-steering and the pram hood.  They were equally important, ensuring that the boat was easily handled and that the crew could handle the boat from a sheltered position.  After fitting a pram hood, I agreed completely with this.  It was wonderful to be able to keep watch, to hear and to smell, to be able instantly to alter course or attend to the sails and yet to be sheltered and comfortable.

    In promoting junk rig, the JRA is promoting a type of sailing that is both safe and pleasurable.
  • 16 Apr 2014 14:03
    Reply # 1538789 on 1538031
    Deleted user
    Junk Rig is fine by me. Can't mean anything else but those fully battened rigs with a sheetlet going to each batten. 
  • 16 Apr 2014 08:30
    Reply # 1538663 on 1538031
    Deleted user
    Yes, I was surprised on first seeing Worcester's book how many coastal vessels there were with Sprit sails .

    This is why the "junk" term is is so useless in referring to the rig (also to the hull). Chinese fully battened balance standing lug rig doesn't exactly roll of the tongue!  And I believe Annie dislikes the 'lug sail' as a name.

    Maybe we should have a definition - then we could appoint a committee commissar to tour members' boats checking that they conform.
  • 16 Apr 2014 02:01
    Reply # 1538531 on 1538031
    'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less.'

    I guess we all have our own definitions of junk rig. When it comes to wingsails, split junks, aerojunks, etc, I think it gets easier. I just call them 'junk rig derivatives'.
  • 16 Apr 2014 01:22
    Reply # 1538512 on 1538031
    Deleted user
    ..and some chinese junks didn't even have a "junk rig" as the JRA would define it at least. The definition above includes "..and set into the sail so that they stack up tidily when reefing". Fair enough, but only a JRA definition. Chinese rigs tended to have double sheets so tidy stacking is not an issue.
    If someone wanted to make a fuss and insist on a "true" junk rig, I would be confused as opposed to just plain "junk rig". The word "true" makes me think of all the boats in China, including the sprit rigged one linked..
  • 15 Apr 2014 19:56
    Reply # 1538320 on 1538043
    Deleted user
    David
    I take your point, but I see things rather differently. I agree that they are all indisputably of a type - indeed I see great unity in the varieties of traditional (uninfluenced by Westernisation) junk rig up and down the China coast. Even given the 'Northern' and 'Southern' types, and the continuum of intermediacy between them as one moves southward.

    Someone like Worcester, examining the 'infinite varieties', might sometimes forget to stand back and see them as a group and compare the group to others around the world. As the statisticians have it, the 'within group' variance seems to me to be far less than the 'between group' variance. Looking through Worcester's little book again, the essential unity of the rigs he illustrates still stands out to me.

    The same might be said of the traditional Chinese hulls - examine his illustrations of the four basic types of bow and stern in the introduction. Knowing also the similarities in the way they are constructed, they stand as a group, in strong contrast to contemporary hulls elsewhere in the world.
     
  • 15 Apr 2014 15:14
    Reply # 1538043 on 1538031
    Chris,
    Your extensive research will have shown you that there are many, many different Chinese vessel types, and many, many different variations of rig on them, spread out over a very long coastline. True, they were working boats ( a generalisation right there) and so were shaped for a specific purpose, not shaped like a modern yacht. Just to leaf through Worcester's little book on the different coastal types of vessel shows as much variation as there was in UK inshore, working, sailing vessels.  The same with rigs. Many different shapes, according to area and end use. Which of these is truly a Chinese vessel, with truly a junk rig? All of them, I'd say.
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       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

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