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Gybing a junk

  • 03 Sep 2014 23:35
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    Reply # 3091755 on 1201045
    Anonymous member

    Arne's fan up preventer should make gybing a lot safer and I intend to try one on Arion, (I already have a fixed yard parrel) though I am not sure if it will totally eliminate the risk associated with accidental gybes.  I had something similar rigged on Arion coming north this year, but attached at 40% aft along the battens and without the short parrels to contain it.  It also went through a block on the boom then down to the foot of the mast and back to the cockpit, acting as a vang.  I had a wind shift that almost gybed the boat accidentally while running square, with the sail reefed, in 25 knot winds and 3m seas.  The sail came amidships before crashing back and the whole reefed bundle lifted up, allowing the sheet to run through its blocks.  The boom and reefed bundle remained cocked up at about 30 degrees, almost amidships, while the yard fell forward past amidships, creating a fearful looking twist.  Nothing was broken or tangled however and I managed to get it straightened out somewhat by overhauling the sheet.  A controlled gybe later evened it out completely.  The problem why the vang is so ineffective seems to be that the forward end of the boom is not fixed in a gooseneck like other rigs, so it can go down.  PJR warns that this can happen.  I will always be reluctant to gybe the sail with slack sheets, even with a FUP.

    Accidental gybes in sudden windshifts, squalls etc will remain my greatest concern with junk rig.  It seems a risk that just has to be accepted.  Like all such risks, there are ways of  reducing the chances of it happening.  My mistake was running under autopilot linked into the trim tab or servo rudder.  I now use the mechanical windvane when running in fresh winds, set off at least one point to the quarter, even if my desired course is dead downwind.  This means that the boat will follow most windshifts instead of gybing, going off course instead, which is preferable.  I tried it yesterday in identical conditions (strong, gusty, variable following wind) and it worked perfectly.  It would not cope with a major, sudden wind shift as can happen in a squall, or close under high land etc, but the risks are significantly minimised.  As Jeanne Moreau once famously quipped, "To live is dangerous!"

    Last modified: 03 Sep 2014 23:42 | Anonymous member
  • 03 Sep 2014 21:55
    Quote
    Reply # 3091704 on 1201045
    Anonymous member
    You might find it works to put some shock cord in the mast lift: you can attach it  to the lift so that if the rope slacken, the shock cord takes out the slack.  I find keeping mine snug works well enough, but I have plenty of balance.  I set mine up with a loop around the mast and then secure it with a rope to the masthead using a round turn and two half hitches.  This not only makes it easy to tighten the lift, but even more importantly, makes it very easy to cast off if you get the yard or battens jammed the wrong side of it.

    I use a length of shock above and below my sheets from one side of the stern rail to the other.  they seem to reduce the garrotting effect quite effectively, but I should like to have a hoop instead: however, I think the cost of having one made is out of my budget.
  • 03 Sep 2014 21:39
    Quote
    Reply # 3091691 on 1201045
    Anonymous member

    I haven't experienced a full fan up but a number of times the yard and/or upper battens have slipped on the wrong side of the mast lift. I've considered some kind of batten/yard parrel on the non-mast side of the sail to prevent the mast lift getting in front of the yard or battens.

    Other than that, gybing is easy and pleasant. This year I added a hoop over the cockpit (similar to Tystie or Shoestring) so the sheets don't sweep the cockpit or garrote my neck. I'd consider the hoop essential for safety with this rig. 
  • 02 Sep 2014 10:29
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    Reply # 3090506 on 1201045
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Brian,
    my main reason for having the FUP downhaul fairly close to the leech is that the sail has little camber there, unlike at the 40% point where the FUP is more likely to distort the camber.

    Arne 
  • 02 Sep 2014 00:38
    Quote
    Reply # 3090329 on 1201045
    Anonymous member
    Arne seems to have come up with yet another brilliant idea.  I have my sail off, at the moment, so have the perfect opportunity to add this system to it.  I shall report back - fan-ups are pretty scary when they do happen!
    Last modified: 02 Sep 2014 00:44 | Anonymous member
  • 01 Sep 2014 23:45
    Quote
    Reply # 3090307 on 1203321
    Deleted user
    Graham Cox wrote: I am also going to trial a modified downhaul system that may allow me to circumvent the need to tie down reefed battens at the leech.  I am going to fit two single downhauls, not rigged to spans as in PJR - one from the second batten up and one from the fourth batten up, about 40% aft of the luff.  They will come vertically down to a block on the boom and then to the partners before leading aft.  With one reef in, slack is taken out of them so that they are acting as a loose sort of vang.  The sail should not fan up with one reef in but only the first batten could lift anyway.  Two reefs in will see both reefed battens held snug to the boom and the boom resisting lifting.  With three reefs in and the slack taken out off the upper downhaul, only the third reefed panel could lift.  With four panels down, all reefed panels and boom are held down.  Above this I only have three fanned panels and a fan up by them is not problematic.  The top two panels can only fan up to their sailing positions and the third panel down, the transitional panel, not much more.
    Hi Graham. I can't see any reason why your idea won't work and may well try it on Paradox.  Not had a fan-up on her yet (had several on previous junks), but it'll happen one of these days. The only downside in comparison to Arne's preferred system in his latest write-up (nice one, Mr Prolific) seems to be two lines instead of one. An upside with yours is it's also a downhaul system.

    Do you already have a downhaul system on the yard? If not, you could add a third line to your proposed system to tug down the batten that's below the yard, thus dragging down the yard itself. If you have seven panels, that is.

    Last modified: 01 Sep 2014 23:51 | Deleted user
  • 13 Feb 2013 00:32
    Quote
    Reply # 1207177 on 1201045
    Deleted user
    Gybing the Easy Go Badger design flat sails is a painless process. 

    I don't worry about the foresail as it tends to take care of itself very softly in the lee of the main sail. The foresail is usually sheeted in much more than the main when running off the wind.

    Normally I will sheet in the main as much as I can. Most of my gybing is done on the open ocean so I'll set the self steering to where I want to be going and the boat will gently come around allowing me to take up more slack in the sheet. The fore sail is usually across by this point and as the main comes over I'll let the sheet out, cleat it off if I have uncleated it then look for any tangles that might have happened. 

    If its really blowing or the seas are up I'll head up into the wind and come across into the wind then fall back off on the new gybe. I actually like this way of gybing as it seems to be less stressful on the gear and the crew. If I get stuck in irons I've been known to just wait a while till the boat get way on in reverse and finish the tack.
  • 12 Feb 2013 23:11
    Quote
    Reply # 1207124 on 1201045
    Anonymous member
    Given that you have the most forward raking mast of any of us, Annie, your comments are worth noting.  If 6 degrees forward rake doesn't do it, nothing will.  Also, Arion, being a long keeled boat, is a lot steadier when gybing, I can put the helm up hard without fear, (but then tacking in a seaway is a lot less sure).  When I haul the sheet in to gybe, I do not pull the sail in until it is in a close-hauled position, I just pull in about 50% of the sheet, sort of into the beam reach position, which seems to be enough to keep some tension on the sheet as it comes across.  Because it is loosely flaked in the cockpit, it starts running back out as soon as the boom passes overhead and, combined with the boat coming up almost onto a beam reach on the new gybe, this seems to soften the impact.  I have not gybed in more than 25 knots yet though, and may well choose what Kurt calls the chicken gybe (ie tacking) when I have to gybe in strong winds - especially with a heavy sea running.  Then I will be envious of boats like Fantail that tack so well.  I may well have to start my engine to do so.  Another choice that PJR recommends is to drop the sail altogether and gybe under bare poles.  Seems like a lot of work, but since you will only have a few panels up perhaps re-hoisting won't be such a chore as usual.  Whatever the decision, I am always mightily relieved when the gybe is complete!

    My old bermudian rig has the last laugh here.  In strong following winds, if I had any main up at all, it was deeply reefed and gybing it was easy.  I'd roll up my jib, flick the main across and unroll the jib again.  Of course, that''s not the full story, reefing the main in the first place, perhaps some foredeck work with the jib pole etc, all need to be added to the equation, but that's a story for another time.  Gybing a junk sail is a serious job that requires careful preparation but I believe it is manageable.   (I fear I am going to be punished for saying that!)

    It is also interesting that Annie mentions that gybing Badger was a lot less stressful.  I wonder if that is because Badger's sails, being  schooner-rigged, were of a higher aspect ratio than our sloops, ie had shorter spars than our relatively large, low aspect single sails do? 
    Last modified: 12 Feb 2013 23:12 | Anonymous member
  • 12 Feb 2013 22:31
    Quote
    Reply # 1207086 on 1203321
    Anonymous member
    Graham Cox wrote:
    I agree with David that a forward raking mast would have to slow the gybe down, but am not sure by how much.  I have 3 degrees forward rake and am well pleased with it, despite my peculiar problems with negative batten stagger (since solved).  I find it very easy to swan along off the wind in light weather, and it looks terrific.  It is also an excellent tool for assessing the character of strangers.  If they like it or are intrigued by it they are usually delightful people to know, while the bores usually hate it!

    As the one who has the forward-raking mast, I'm not entirely sure that it does slow the gybe down.  I find gybing Fantail more hair-raising than it was in Badger, where a soft gybe with the helm right up and a quick duck as the sheets came across was painless 99% of the time.  Fantail's sheet, on the other hand, wants to wrap itself around anything and everything: the wind vane, the autopilot, the tiller, my neck and arms - you name it.  A length of shock cord run across the boat above the sheets seems to have stopped it tangling around the wind vane.  I wonder if one below would keep it off my tiller and me?  On the other hand, I don't like a hard gybe, either, it seems to stress the gear. And Fantail is so skittish with the helm anything other than centred, that by the time I have the sheet across, she's likely not only to have gybed but to have put herself on to the other tack.  In fact, she will tack in most conditions without my even touching the sheet, which obviates the need for a gybe, but I want the same sort of control that I had with Badger.

    But then I'm probably slower and more timid than I was in 1999!
  • 10 Feb 2013 09:06
    Quote
    Reply # 1203870 on 1201045
    Anonymous member
    I agree Gary, I want one too, as you can haul the mainsheet slack in with one hand while lowering or reefing the sail, freeing up the other hand to control the YHP and the THP.
       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

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