Galley alcohol, gas and diesel cookers/ovens

  • 23 May 2016 09:49
    Reply # 4034371 on 1195343

    I'm going to have a rethink, and scale down the size of my Maxie-based cooker. Looking at my requirement with brutal honesty, I'm going to be cooking for one on a small boat with a very small galley. I don't really have room to store my 20cm Kuhn Rikon pressure cooker, though it has been a good friend to me when cooking year in and year out on a larger boat. 

    I've ordered an 18cm cast aluminium pan as the basis for the cooker, so it's thicker-walled and heavier (though I think I'll forget gimballing for the time being - boiling a kettle and heating a can of soup will suffice while underway this summer). 

    I've bought a tiny pressure cooker, a Premier Handi Hard Anodised Pressure Cooker 1.5 Litre made in India and sold by Amazon UK. It's actually 1.2 litre capacity, but I've found that it is exactly the right size for a one-pot meal for one person. Its diameter is 16cm. So I can follow that up by buying a 1 litre hard anodised camping kettle; I already have some 16cm stainless steel pans. 

    This plan wouldn't do for living aboard; but I'll be sailing during the summer months only, in Weaverbird, and that makes a difference.

  • 23 May 2016 09:24
    Reply # 4034335 on 4033737
    Annie Hill wrote:
    Arne Kverneland wrote:I then measured up 0.5 litre of water (about +10°C) and found that it took just over 5 minutes to bring it to boil. That is good enough for me. 
    Hi Arne - it sounds like the Origo manufacturers are telling the truth when they say it takes 10 mins to heat a litre of water.  What's a minute or two between friends.  I think David is in a minority in finding the Origo too slow, but I am completely in accord with him that it's not really designed to be used at sea.  I am still waiting and watching. 
    The basic physics says that if you double the quantity of water, and keep the heat input the same, its temperature will be increasing at half the rate, and meantime, it is losing heat by radiation. 1 litre will take more than twice the time it takes to boil 0.5 litre. No matter, I will agree that the Origo will produce an adequate, if not amazing heat output. Where it fails is in not being suitably designed for sailing use, in being inconvenient to refill, and in not having a way of checking how much is left in the tank.
  • 23 May 2016 09:10
    Reply # 4034327 on 4033730
    Annie Hill wrote:
    David Tyler wrote:
    Yes. I can bring a pan to the boil, and then turn the burner down to simmering heat without misbehaving - unlike a pressure kero burner, that will choke with carbon if the heat is too low, there is no tiny jet to block up. The only misbehaviour I found in three or four years of full-time use is that when the burner is getting old, the flame holes become enlarged, and then you can get a backfire and hear the combustion going on within the chamber.

    I think it depends a bit on the way you cook: I found that even turned down, food boiled rather than simmered, so used a flame tamer.  That could be why my burner surrounds crumbled away faster than yours did, David.  Possibly the extra deflected heat?  BTW are the preheat dishes non-ferrous?
    The entire burner is of brass. However, the burner chamber and preheat cup are of very thin sheet brass and the horizontal tube and needle valve are of thicker-walled material. This, I believe is why they crumble away, leaving the tube in good condition. Further,  I believe that it would be quite possible to salvage a burner by making up a new burner chamber and preheat cup of thicker material - brass, copper or stainless steel - and Sifbronzing them onto the tube.

    I do believe, also, that the very simple principle of operation is the best way of burning alcohol in a cooker. The burner made of the right materials, and mounted in a seaworthy stove = trouble-free and convenient cooking.

  • 22 May 2016 22:15
    Reply # 4033737 on 4033536
    Arne Kverneland wrote:Today I had a quick trip (through the rain) to check Ingeborg’s Origo 3000 stove. I had recently filled up both canisters with the cheapest denatured alcohol I could get. At full pelt, it now burned with a yellowish flame, indicating rich mixture and/or incomplete combustion (..if I got it right...). If I turned down the heat a little, the flame again went invisible. I then measured up 0.5 litre of water (about +10°C) and found that it took just over 5 minutes to bring it to boil. That is good enough for me. One fine thing with it, is that it can be set to very low heat for as long as you like without it protesting. I haven’t tried it for making bacon yet. Time will show.
    Hi Arne - it sounds like the Origo manufacturers are telling the truth when they say it takes 10 mins to heat a litre of water.  What's a minute or two between friends.  I think David is in a minority in finding the Origo too slow, but I am completely in accord with him that it's not really designed to be used at sea.  I am still waiting and watching. 


    I need two burners and I really fancy using pressure alcohol - the best of both worlds being fast and clean.  However, the lovely stove i have is fantastically well pivoted with a tank w-a-y down low, but because of that it takes up heaps of space, and as, these days, I don't do a lot of cooking underway ...  I really need to get the damn boat turned over so that I can check whether or not I can fit a cooker athwartships - there's an old Princess pressure alcohol stove being fettled up for sale ...


    And of course, for a foodie like me, there's the temptation to fit an Origo oven, which would allow for wonderful gourmet meals, to say nothing of croissants, gratins and all those other things that are beyond my ingenuity in a frying pan!  But they're a shocking price, which brings me back down to earth.
    Last modified: 22 May 2016 22:16 | Anonymous member
  • 22 May 2016 22:06
    Reply # 4033730 on 4033572
    David Tyler wrote:
    Yes. I can bring a pan to the boil, and then turn the burner down to simmering heat without misbehaving - unlike a pressure kero burner, that will choke with carbon if the heat is too low, there is no tiny jet to block up. The only misbehaviour I found in three or four years of full-time use is that when the burner is getting old, the flame holes become enlarged, and then you can get a backfire and hear the combustion going on within the chamber.

    I think it depends a bit on the way you cook: I found that even turned down, food boiled rather than simmered, so used a flame tamer.  That could be why my burner surrounds crumbled away faster than yours did, David.  Possibly the extra deflected heat?  BTW are the preheat dishes non-ferrous?
    Last modified: 22 May 2016 22:07 | Anonymous member
  • 22 May 2016 17:03
    Reply # 4033572 on 4033536
    Arne Kverneland wrote:

    David,
    thanks for a most interesting line of photos of the Maxie burner. A very clever device, indeed. So the thin jet of evaporated alcohol just drags enough air with it into the bigger hole of the burner to get «lean» burning?!

    Yes. I should have said that the 10mm hole is actually a short length of tube.

    PS: Can the Maxie be set to low heat without misbehaving?

     Yes. I can bring a pan to the boil, and then turn the burner down to simmering heat without misbehaving - unlike a pressure kero burner, that will choke with carbon if the heat is too low, there is no tiny jet to block up. The only misbehaviour I found in three or four years of full-time use is that when the burner is getting old, the flame holes become enlarged, and then you can get a backfire and hear the combustion going on within the chamber.


  • 22 May 2016 16:04
    Reply # 4033536 on 1195343
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    David,
    thanks for a most interesting line of photos of the Maxie burner. A very clever device, indeed. So the thin jet of evaporated alcohol just drags enough air with it into the bigger hole of the burner to get «lean» burning?!

    As for the sensitivity to the height of the tank; I guess many such burners could have used a float chamber regulator as used in most carburettors, and on the Reflex diesel heater. My needle valve-controlled Taylor diesel heater (in Malena and Johanna) was always tricky to make run at a constant setting. A friend of mine had the same heater. When he added a regulator from Reflex, the problem was solved.

    Today I had a quick trip (through the rain) to check Ingeborg’s Origo 3000 stove. I had recently filled up both canisters with the cheapest denatured alcohol I could get. At full pelt, it now burned with a yellowish flame, indicating rich mixture and/or incomplete combustion (..if I got it right...). If I turned down the heat a little, the flame again went invisible. I then measured up 0.5 litre of water (about +10°C) and found that it took just over 5 minutes to bring it to boil. That is good enough for me. One fine thing with it, is that it can be set to very low heat for as long as you like without it protesting. I haven’t tried it for making bacon yet. Time will show.

    Arne

     
    Ingeborg's Origo 3000

    PS: Can the Maxie be set to low heat without misbehaving?

     

    Last modified: 22 May 2016 17:26 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 22 May 2016 08:32
    Reply # 4032754 on 1195343

    When I ordered the knob, I hadn't realised that it was made of thermoplastic. I've now ordered a phenolic resin (thermoset) knob with grubscrew fastening, which should be fine.

    Gimbal in two axes? It's enough work to gimbal in one! And the second isn't really necessary.

    The needle valve is no longer leaking with the tank at high level, so either it's bedded in, or a foreign body has been flushed through. Nevertheless, 12cm head of pressure is plenty to make the burner work at maximum output.

  • 21 May 2016 20:45
    Reply # 4032352 on 1195343

    Interesting stuff David.  

    I wonder if you might be overheating the burner and that is the reason for softening the knob?  Most of the single burner stoves I've used allow more airflow to the burner.  For a replacement knob, I ordered some bakelite ones from ebay that seemed to work well enough with the Origo we had. I think bakelite has a continuous working temp around 120 C.

    I think lead on the bottom is a good idea.  We used a Force 10 Seacook stove for years aboard our Hurley 20.  The low slung propane tank and high mounting point for the gimbals was enough to keep it stable with any reasonably sized pot on top of it.  Too bad the pot is teflon lined, otherwise you could use it as a mold to cast a lead brick to attach to the bottom of the pot.  Incidentally, since you are making a one-burner stove, why not gimbal it in two axes like the Force 10 Seacook?

    It is a bit alarming that the needle valve is so poor that it can't withstand more than a few inches of pressure head.  I wonder if you could use some valve lapping compound to improve the mating surfaces?  It would be interesting to experiment with the turbo-charged Maxi you describe by raising the tank a little bit.

    Thanks for sharing the results of your experiment.

  • 21 May 2016 19:07
    Reply # 4032271 on 1195343

    By this morning, all the components had arrived, so I rolled up my sleeves, went to the workbench and built myself a cooker. The result is in my photo album.

    By the end of the afternoon, it was ready for trials, and I cooked my first meal on it.

    Problems:

    The gimballing is not very good. Although the pivots are 6cm above the pan supports, so that they are near the free surface of the liquid in the pan, the centre of gravity of the whole assemblage is still not far enough below the pan, and the cooker is not heavy enough. This shows up in a way that I hadn't anticipated: A pan with a heavy handle, like my Kuhn Rikon pressure cooker, has its CG quite far out from the centre of the pan itself. The cooker will tilt, under this influence, and the pan will slide to one side, increasing the effect. Even my kettle, which is symmetrical and has no handle out to one side, will cause the cooker to tilt if it is not exactly central, even though it can move only 1cm. The only cure would seem to be a large lump of lead bonded to the bottom of the cooker.

    The tank cannot be much higher than the built-in tank in the Maxie cooker, or the needle valve cannot close off the flow completely. It cannot be particularly well made. If the tank was higher, there was a fiercer flame than I thought was good for for the burner.

    The knob softened in the heat transmitted along the spindle, and would not turn the spindle at the end of cooking. I was glad of the on/off valve near the tank. I will have to find a more heat-resistant knob.

    All in all, though, I think the concept is viable. At least I have a cooker that is safe enough, is easy to light and adjust, is fast, is easy to refill and will retain a pan in a rough sea.

       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

                                                              Site contents © the Junk Rig Association and/or individual authors

Powered by Wild Apricot Membership Software