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Westerly Pageant conversion!

  • 24 May 2020 10:29
    Quote
    Reply # 8989517 on 8987104
    Anonymous member

    David and Arne

    This design element has gone faster and farther than I thought it would. I expected some tips and guidance, but this is an order of magnitude more than I expected.

    I'm having difficulty keeping up with you guys ;-) 

    I'm thinking now that maybe I'm over-reaching with asking for a state of the art junk rig plus my own interior that creates problems for the rig design.

    I know nothing about CAD and don't know how much work I'm asking of you both. I can only say thanks a lot.

    Maybe I should re-think my interior design and go with the original suggestions of putting the stick thru the for'ard hatch? It would get me out sailing a lot quicker...

    What do you think?



     
  • 24 May 2020 09:22
    Quote
    Reply # 8989492 on 8987104
    Anonymous member

    Yes, we JR designers can do the impossible, it just takes a minute longer.

    Just maybe...

    PJR gives a limit for aft mast rake of 3˚, but if I bend that rule and put it at 5˚ with the sail rotated through 3˚ around the CE, I can get the mast through the sloping end of the coachroof. I would only do this with light spars (so that sail doesn't fall inboard on a light airs run) - for instance the carbon battens that I prefer.

    Last modified: 24 May 2020 09:24 | Anonymous member
  • 24 May 2020 08:40
    Quote
    Reply # 8989451 on 8987104
    Anonymous member

    Thanks Arne.

    I was typing as you posted...Let me think thru what you wrote.

    The wind vane issue is a bit of a show stopper. I have a windpilot light and like a famous old advert @ I don't leave home without it ;-)

    Cheers...




    Last modified: 24 May 2020 08:42 | Anonymous member
  • 24 May 2020 08:33
    Quote
    Reply # 8989445 on 8987104
    Anonymous member

    Thanks David, I knew that all along I suppose, but I wanted an experienced junk rig guru to confirm it. Kind of hoping there was a magic button that I didn't know about that changes the laws of physics ;-)

    Arne said he might be able to put it thru the sloping face of the coachroof. Then it's a matter of calculating the weight issue. I've been worried about the pitching moment most of all actually. I'm trying in my modified interior to try and keep as much weight as possible out of the ends...

    I sailed a catboat as a kid and knew better, my bad ;-)

    Cheers...
  • 24 May 2020 08:33
    Quote
    Reply # 8989444 on 8987104
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Paul,
    everything is doable, but the impossible jobs take more time .

    I can see two ways:

    • A broad sail can be made to get the CE right. That will require new and serious rudder, preferably a swing-up or haul-up rudder which in its low position is around 120cm deep. That is OK if 95% of your waters are deep enough.
    • The other way is to just move one of the shown sails forward, and then bring the total CE aft with a simple triangular mizzen, set with a sprit boom and sheeted to a not too tall boomkin. The mizzen rules out a windvane, but it will in itself act as one, except when sailing downwind. The mizzen will also be a fine riding sail when at anchor. With the main moved forward like that, the steering downwind should be fairly easy. 
    This setup, with a jigger, will let jo have a rudder of the same draft as today, but I would anyway advise you to add a pair of endplates to it. In case you make a new rudder on the transom, the rudder should also be given a pair of 'anti ventilation plates' near the waterline  -  identical to the endplates.

    I strongly recommend Karlis Kalnin's article on rudder in JRA Magazine 74, p.26.

    Since it is raining horizontally here, at only 8°C, I can just as well have a look at  it.
    More coffee...

    Arne

    Last modified: 24 May 2020 08:36 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 24 May 2020 07:24
    Quote
    Reply # 8989402 on 8987104
    Anonymous member

    Sorry, Paul, that's too far forward, on all counts: room for foredeck work, weight of mast in the bows, getting the helm balance right with JR etc. Only the American catboats have a mast that far forward, and they're generally reckoned to be pretty cranky to handle, even with barndoor rudders. You'd have to look at a rig like that used on the single masted Nonesuch, Wylie and Freedom boats, and I don't think that would suit your cruising plans.
  • 24 May 2020 02:32
    Quote
    Reply # 8989119 on 8987104
    Anonymous member

    David / Arne

    Thanks a lot for this guys. My designs are generally on the back of a napkin, so I'm super impressed. Could you do it with mast through the forward slope of the coachroof. 

    If I have to go thru the hatch, I can't do the interior mods I want, so it would be easier for me to change to another boat. The interior design is something I've considered for years, and really want to incorporate it into what I hope is my last boat.

    You both agree that going thru the fore deck is impossible?

    Many thanks...





    Last modified: 24 May 2020 02:32 | Anonymous member
  • 23 May 2020 21:02
    Quote
    Reply # 8988773 on 8987104
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Here is my version:

    I have placed the sail with 15% balance with respect to the mast. This gives room for moving the sail a bit aft or forward to get the best steering balance. The Westerly brochure showed 28sqm with the biggest genoa, so the suggested 26.5sqm (285sqft) should not be too much, with a SA/disp = 17.3. After all, that boat has 48% ballast and plenty of beam, at 2.44m/8.00ft.

    Arne

    PS: I think I would aim for 10% camber for that heavy boat.

    (See diagrams 27-32 on Arne’s sketches, section 4)


    Last modified: 27 Feb 2024 08:36 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 23 May 2020 20:05
    Quote
    Reply # 8988694 on 8987104
    Anonymous member

    Thanks for the DXF file, Arne.

    It was pretty easy to drop on a 26 sq m Weaverbird sail, and the mast turns out almost the same height as the bermudan mast. That’s as big as I want to go, I think.
  • 23 May 2020 18:11
    Quote
    Reply # 8988545 on 8987104
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Hi Paul.

    I would like to have a look at it, now that it is raining, and we still are a bit antisocial over here, due to that virus. I need to know if you can accept to have the mast through the hatch. If not, I will have to draw it on the sloping forward wall of the cabin.

    I will trace the hull and send it over in QCAD format to David Tyler, so he can have a look at it and fit his preferred Weaverbird rig to it . I don't know which is the original version.

    Cheers,
    Arne
       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

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