DECIDING ON SAIL AREA OF JUNK SAIL WHEN CONVERTING FROM GAFF RIG

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  • 13 Apr 2012 10:08
    Reply # 888667 on 884659
    I converted a 22' ferro Falmouth work boat designed by Percy Dalton to junk in the late 70's. Look in Jra newsletter no 6. Used the working sail area but if you can work in a little more accounting for sheeting angles, mast height and thicknes  etc all the better as reefing is so quick. I used the standard H&M sail but would think the fenix/Reddish sail would be better. Good luck and once the new rig has re-taught you how to sail you wont regret it.
      Mark
  • 11 Apr 2012 05:05
    Reply # 886710 on 886705
    Antony Harvey wrote:I am really seeking advice / comments for the conversion of a John Welsford 4m Fafnir mini cruising cutter. I have tagged on to this forum string because I can't work out how to start a new posting. Sorry. 
    Anthony,
    to start a new topic in a forum you're reading, click on "back to topics" at the top, and then "create topic". Or go to the Public pages/Technical forum, in this case, or Members' home page/forum summary to find the members only fora, and click on one of them. Again, you will see "create topic" at the top.
    I've moved your posting over to a new topic.
    David.
  • 11 Apr 2012 04:40
    Reply # 886705 on 884659
    Deleted user
    I am really seeking advice / comments for the conversion of a John Welsford 4m Fafnir mini cruising cutter. I have tagged on to this forum string because I can't work out how to start a new posting. Sorry. My member profile has an album that sets out the modifications but essentially I drew a Van Loan type sail of close to the original area and placed the junk C of E over the original cutter rig C of E. Any comments would be greatly appreciated, particularly if there is something drastically wrong.
  • 09 Apr 2012 22:46
    Reply # 885648 on 884659
    Deleted user
    David
    Thanks very much, I have found it!

    I will spend some time studying these, many thanks.
    Jonathan
  • 09 Apr 2012 15:48
    Reply # 885376 on 885283
    JONATHAN WARREN wrote:David
    I have just been looking - and got horribly lost - for the drawings you'd mentioned.  Is there a link I can click to find them?
    Embarrassedly
    Jonathan
    PS I can NEVER find things on t'Interweb!  :(
    Jonathan,
    Go to Members'home page/Your files/Drawings/Footprints new sail 2012 and Tystie's new sail 2012
    David
  • 09 Apr 2012 12:54
    Reply # 885296 on 884659
    Deleted user
    Hi Martin

    I have just emailed you; what a coincidence :) !  Thanks for the advice, and I note that you have used builders' tarp (I have just gone looking online) for your sail.  How long did it last?  I have been thinking of making one out of the same material, for reasons of cost.

    I intend doing more or less as you have done, ie flat cut and simply rigged for a first attempt.  I am definitely in need of putting pen to paper and working out a suitable design.

    Thanks for the advice.
    Jonathan
  • 09 Apr 2012 12:45
    Reply # 885293 on 884659
    Deleted user
    Hi,
      When sizing your sails don't forget that with easy reefing you can 'oversize' your sails for light air sailing.  On my, admittedly, small Micro I deliberately added an extra panels worth of sail over the standard rig for the boat and typically sail with one reef set.  In light airs this gives me the option of a bigger sail - a bit like a topsail.

    Martin 
  • 09 Apr 2012 11:05
    Reply # 885283 on 884659
    Deleted user
    David
    I have just been looking - and got horribly lost - for the drawings you'd mentioned.  Is there a link I can click to find them?
    Embarrassedly
    Jonathan
    PS I can NEVER find things on t'Interweb!  :(
  • 09 Apr 2012 10:52
    Reply # 885274 on 884659
    Deleted user
    Arne and David, thanks for the swift response!

    Arne - I have just spent a pleasant half hour/hour watching the youtube clips you sent me, Arne.  I found them most informative, especially the information on Allen Farrell.  I don't intend keeping the existing rig, but rather want to change to junk completely.  I have taken the liberty of downloading most of the information you have published here, and will use it to guide me through the design process.  And you are quite correct, that rigging point is called the hounds.  

    David - I suspect that I am going to have to go with a single mast and sail, given what you have indicated.  The more I see pictures of rigs, the more I realise that the boom essentially ends above the coachroof, allowing a long sheeting angle to the battens, and I think you are right when you say that at 9m it will be difficult to squeeze two masts into her length.  My doubts about a single rig is that the sail might be huge and therefore difficult to manage; I don't yet know, I have not sailed with it yet, haha!

    The length of mast I quoted is above deck; the mast is currently in a tabernacle.  once it is stepped onto the keel it should be in the region of 30' (9m) above the deck, which I suspect might not be tall enough... 

    What I can see is that I am going to have to do a drawing!  At the moment I am reading PJR again and trying to formulate possibilities.  Already the fact of discussing this idea with ye is having a beneficial effect, allowing the outline of the project to coalesce into something like concrete reality.

    I am now living on the boat in Liverpool during the week (I commute to work there during the week) and so will have the time to do drawings, and being on the spot, take measurements.  As I reflect, I think that the mast is about 25cm at the base, which is close to the PJR recommendations, but I am not there to check right now.

    Thank you both for your help.

    Jonathan
  • 08 Apr 2012 22:26
    Reply # 884882 on 884659
    Jonathan,
    I think it's impracticable to think of two masts to carry 51 - 59 sq m on a 9m boat. The rig can't be fitted in, lengthways, unless you go for very high aspect ratio, which brings problems of its own. It's the problem that I faced when considering the re-rig of Tystie - I couldn't get 59 sq m onto a 10.5m boat, in ketch format.

    You'll have seen the drawings of the two sails we've just made for Footprints, 10m LOD 53 sq m, batten length 6.6m; and Tystie, 10.5m LOD, 59 sq m batten length 6.9m.  You could squeeze either of these two sails onto a 9m boat, so long as the placement of the rig in the boat turned out to give satisfactory vertical sheeting angles. I think the smaller sail, 53sq m, would be easier to accommodate, but at a SA/D of 14.5 is rather small. The larger sail, 59 sq m, might be a tight squeeze, but the SA/D of 16.2 is better. Having said that, Tystie is about 8 tons, so operates at a SA/D of 14.8 , which is rather low - but it's all I can fit onto a mast of 10.5m above deck. Is the length of your existing mast at 36ft, the length above deck, and is the diameter roughly in accordance with PJR sizes?
    David.
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