A couple of rigging questions

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  • 20 Jul 2011 19:30
    Reply # 659575 on 658959
    Deleted user
    Slieve McGalliard wrote:

    Jeff

    Just a thought, but do you really need adjustable lazy jacks? If I want to lift my sail bundle I use the multi purchase halyard. All I need to do is pass at strong tie round the bundle in line with the halyard, and haul away. I believe some do adjust their lazyjacks when they are sailing, and particularly if they have fanned battens or a boom crutch in the way. I would rather collapse the crutch than adjust the lazyjacks as I don’t want many adjustable lines running around.

     

    My sail catcher goes around under the bottom batten (which you might call a boom but is only a batten) and along the centre of it on the inside I have sewn two or three short lengths of webbing so that the catcher can be tied to the bottom batten with 3mm line. The ends of the catcher are tensioned out to the end of the batten. The lazy jacks tie to webbing that goes round under the catcher, but sewn to it, and sewn back on itself to form small loops to tie to. These tie points are at the level of a flat sail batten along the top, and the catcher continues across to the zip which closes it off as a sail cover. When unzipped and in use, I tuck the closing flaps down inside and have little patches of Velcro sewn on in strategic places to keep them tidy and prevent them flying around.

     

    My sail catcher is symmetrical along the centre line, and I have ‘bonnets’ to cover the aft end and a long one to cover the front back to and including the mast, a bit like an extended Doyle Stackpak mast cover. I should improve it but it is easy to use and I’m lazy.

     

    Cheers, Slieve.

       Having finished my mix of Poppy and Ping Pong I sailed here 2 times in light winds and had problems with the adjustable lazy jacks. When tightened they spoil the flow over the leeward part of the split rig. When reefed the sail hangs under the lowest batten and spoils my forward view.In an effort to  avoid the use of lazy jacks I am working on the following construction.

    One function of the lazy jacks is to hold up the bottom battens when reefing but this can also be done by a collar wich is clipped on the mast just under the lowest batten in combination with a topping lift as on BM rigged boats fixed to the end of the lowest batten . An other function of the lazy jacks is to keep the battens and the sailcloth together, this can simply be done by making a piece of shockcord along the whole length of the lowest batten and fix that every 2 feet and put a little tension on it . On the batten pockets of the higher battens i sew plastic hooks with their open ends up to the  sky; their position just between the fixing point of the shockcord below .When reefing you let go the halyard till the  battens rest on the collar and then lift the shockcord over the hooks .

    I have my proa on a trailer and want to sail within half an hour after arriving on the waterside and avoid as much ropes as possible to reach this goal.

    May be you can do something with the idea.

    Jef.

     

     

     

  • 20 Jul 2011 15:46
    Reply # 659419 on 658959
    Deleted user
    Slieve McGalliard wrote:

    Jeff

    Just a thought, but do you really need adjustable lazy jacks? If I want to lift my sail bundle I use the multi purchase halyard. All I need to do is pass at strong tie round the bundle in line with the halyard, and haul away. I believe some do adjust their lazyjacks when they are sailing, and particularly if they have fanned battens or a boom crutch in the way. I would rather collapse the crutch than adjust the lazyjacks as I don’t want many adjustable lines running around.


    I had never considered that option.  It is probably better, but here are my questions:


    Actually I don't see needing to adjust the topping lifts underway, this is all about keeping Seablossom as a trailer transportable boat.  I really hope to be able to pull her out of the fresh water once a year at least, and tow her to salt water and learn that part of sailing.


    Given that plan, I will need to be able to lay the sail bundle on the deck, unstep the mast, go wherever we go, and put it all back together.  I will, of course, have to raise the sail a batten at a time to re-clip or re-tie (or whatever plan I come up with) the batten parrels around the mast.  Part of my problem is going to be how to get the sail bundle up and over the sail crutch you can see mounted at the back of the cabin in the Boat of the Month photo, but the other problem will be how to get the topping lifts re-attached once I have the batten parrels and other rigging all in place.  I really don't want that many adjustable lines running all over the place either, but... I guess maybe I could lift the entire bundle as you describe above, tie the topping lifts together, drop the bundle into them, and then begin lifting the sail a batten at a time to get the parrels reconnected. 

     

    My sail catcher goes around under the bottom batten (which you might call a boom but is only a batten) and along the centre of it on the inside I have sewn two or three short lengths of webbing so that the catcher can be tied to the bottom batten with 3mm line. The ends of the catcher are tensioned out to the end of the batten. The lazy jacks tie to webbing that goes round under the catcher, but sewn to it, and sewn back on itself to form small loops to tie to. These tie points are at the level of a flat sail batten along the top,


    I was keeping up until you got here... top of what?


    and the catcher continues across to the zip which closes it off as a sail cover. When unzipped and in use, I tuck the closing flaps down inside and have little patches of Velcro sewn on in strategic places to keep them tidy and prevent them flying around.

     

    My sail catcher is symmetrical along the centre line, and I have ‘bonnets’ to cover the aft end and a long one to cover the front back to and including the mast, a bit like an extended Doyle Stackpak mast cover. I should improve it but it is easy to use and I’m lazy.

     

    Cheers, Slieve.

    Thanks for all of this.
    Jeff
  • 19 Jul 2011 23:35
    Reply # 658959 on 656966

    Jeff

    Just a thought, but do you really need adjustable lazy jacks? If I want to lift my sail bundle I use the multi purchase halyard. All I need to do is pass at strong tie round the bundle in line with the halyard, and haul away. I believe some do adjust their lazyjacks when they are sailing, and particularly if they have fanned battens or a boom crutch in the way. I would rather collapse the crutch than adjust the lazyjacks as I don’t want many adjustable lines running around.

     

    My sail catcher goes around under the bottom batten (which you might call a boom but is only a batten) and along the centre of it on the inside I have sewn two or three short lengths of webbing so that the catcher can be tied to the bottom batten with 3mm line. The ends of the catcher are tensioned out to the end of the batten. The lazy jacks tie to webbing that goes round under the catcher, but sewn to it, and sewn back on itself to form small loops to tie to. These tie points are at the level of a flat sail batten along the top, and the catcher continues across to the zip which closes it off as a sail cover. When unzipped and in use, I tuck the closing flaps down inside and have little patches of Velcro sewn on in strategic places to keep them tidy and prevent them flying around.

     

    My sail catcher is symmetrical along the centre line, and I have ‘bonnets’ to cover the aft end and a long one to cover the front back to and including the mast, a bit like an extended Doyle Stackpak mast cover. I should improve it but it is easy to use and I’m lazy.

     

    Cheers, Slieve.

  • 19 Jul 2011 21:54
    Reply # 658859 on 656966
    Deleted user
    This puts me in a good position I think. My topping lifts are all wrong and my sail covet is rotted away. I should be in a good spot to make new topping lifts and a sail catcher / sail cover.

    I just bought enough [sailrite cloth, excuse my memory] to make a sail cover. It's 5 feet wide and plenty long.

    My current topping lifts don't render under the boom, they are made fast to small cleats on each side. They are standing.

    I want running topping lifts with purchases so I can lift the sail bundle off the deck without help. I for sure can't pick it up. I intend to put padeyes on the bottom of the boom for the lifts to render through per JRA.

    So here, based partly on this thread, is the current plan:
    Put the pad eyes on the boom. Sew "buttonholes" in the fabric aligned with the padeyes, and stage it under the sail bundle with say 8" or a foot on the starboard side, the required bag down below the sail, and the remainder - 3'? - up along the port topping lifts.

    Now it gets trickier. Maybe take the starboard sides of the sailcatcher, trim and seam them to align along the starboard fore and aft toppin lifts and fasten them to all topping lifts. All right so far?

    Finally seam the port side around a boomlet, fasten that up to the topping lifts, and go sailing. When you strike the sail for a day or a month, you can bring the sailcatchet boom up over the sail and drop it on the starboard side of the sail, and be pretty much ready to go. Right?

    Jeff

    Last modified: 19 Jul 2011 22:01 | Deleted user
  • 19 Jul 2011 08:21
    Reply # 658382 on 656966

    Thanks for answering the sail catcher question before I got back to it David.

    Jeff, like all sailing fittings, it has its pros and cons. Mine is not actually full length in that the front if it stops just aft of the mast, and with the split rig there is still 30% of the battens and sail in front of the mast, which does not have a catcher. When you drop a couple of panels the aft part of the sail, or 'main sail' fall into the catcher and all is quiet, but the fore part, 'Jib' is unsupported and flaps around if it is windy, which is not really acceptable. If you are sailing in light winds in confinded quarters the 'jibs' will hang down and obstruct your view a bit.

    This is something I have to change and extend the catcher further forward, and is really part of the design of my rig. So far I haven't corrected it as I tend to only do short passages, but also because I am rather slow to reef as the rig lets the boats stands up well to a strong wind (and I like overtaking bermudan boats). Some claim that a catcher will chafe a sail, but my experience is that it protects my sail and the pressure on the material is spread more evenly so that there are no hard chafe points. A good catcher is great to have but a bad one could be a pain, so I believe this is one area of design the needs further developement and exchange of information. Too much material in it and it will flap around, but too little will also be a pain and not give UV protection as a cover.

    I suppose they could make it difficult to swing the rig forward for down wind balance, but with my high balance rig I don't have to have that extra complication, and bits of string. Yes, I like my simple to sail rig. I must finish the write up soon.

    Cheers, Slieve

    Last modified: 19 Jul 2011 08:28 | Anonymous member
  • 19 Jul 2011 00:37
    Reply # 658036 on 657604
    Jeff McFadden wrote:
    Even from recent reading of PJR I am unclear as to what a sailcatcher is. Can you enlighten me on this please?

    David, how did you attach your mast lift to your boom without making it want to twist?
    Jeff
    Sailcatchers are a more recent development than PJR, and can be seen on bermudan rigs as well. The Doyle "StackPack" was one of the first.
    A generalised definition of a sailcatcher might be that  a "U" - shaped piece of cloth  (viewed end-on) is attached to the bottom of the sail, with its upper edges attached to the topping lifts and maybe the mast lift. In its most minimal form, a pair of triangles attached to the topping lifts, it gathers the aft end of the sail bundle more effectively and with less chafe than a rope or webbing span. In its fully developed form, it extends the full width of the sail ( at least, on the side away from the mast), has a batten along its upper edge, is held up by both the topping lifts and mast lift and can be closed along the top edge by tying, zip(s) or Velcro to act as a sailcover as well. And there can be intermediate configurations. I use the minimal form, Ketil and Slieve use the full-length form. Ketil wrote an article on his version in JRA newsletter 53.

    I used the double form of mast lift, as in PJR fig. 3.50. However, on a smaller rig, I don't see why a single mast lift shouldn't be tied around the boom through an eyelet in the sail. Both must be used in conjunction with a fixed boom parrel.
  • 18 Jul 2011 17:15
    Reply # 657659 on 656966
    Thanks all for your comments. Seems like I've a lot of catching up to do.

    Jeff, when I talked to Vincent Reddish he explained that the mast lift he used was made from two separate ropes joined at the boom, located just forward of the mast, forming a long loop around the sail. I imagine he screwed an eye or similar on the underside of the boom to retain the rope in the correct place. By using a loop rather than a single rope, twist was avoided. His mast lift(s) were standing rather than adjustable from on deck.
  • 18 Jul 2011 16:01
    Reply # 657604 on 657571
    Deleted user
    Slieve McGalliard wrote:

    I agree with David about seperate halyard blocks at the mast head. I was persuaded to fit a double and becket for a four part halyard and have regretted it every time I go sailing. I now feel that two separate mast head blocks and two separate yard blocks are the way to go.

    I also agree with the idea of a sail catcher/ lazy jacks. I have yet to decide on the best overall design of the catcher and I believe that this is an area that we could all be pulling information on to get a better 'wheel'. There are those who don't like catchers and it would be interesting to hear from them as well, as we all have much to learn from each other.

    Do read the Macavity article. There is a lot to be learned from it.

    Cheers, Slieve


    Even from recent reading of PJR I am unclear as to what a sailcatcher is. Can you enlighten me on this please?

    David, how did you attach your mast lift to your boom without making it want to twist?
    Jeff
  • 18 Jul 2011 15:08
    Reply # 657571 on 656966

    I agree with David about seperate halyard blocks at the mast head. I was persuaded to fit a double and becket for a four part halyard and have regretted it every time I go sailing. I now feel that two separate mast head blocks and two separate yard blocks are the way to go.

    I also agree with the idea of a sail catcher/ lazy jacks. I have yet to decide on the best overall design of the catcher and I believe that this is an area that we could all be pulling information on to get a better 'wheel'. There are those who don't like catchers and it would be interesting to hear from them as well, as we all have much to learn from each other.

    Do read the Macavity article. There is a lot to be learned from it.

    Cheers, Slieve

    Last modified: 18 Jul 2011 15:09 | Anonymous member
  • 18 Jul 2011 13:11
    Reply # 657505 on 657468
    Jerry Stebbing wrote:
    Regarding the mast cap, what is the extra 5 o'clock halyard attachment point for? A permanently rigged spare halyard?

    OK, polythene rope is out. Which is the better option- braid or 3 strand?


    Assuming a 3:1 halyard, I use 2 single blocks in preference to a double block, because a double block cannot line up properly with all the parts of the tackle and the fall of the halyard, as the yard is squared off, resulting in extra friction and wear.
    We've discussed rope materials here:
    but there's a lot of personal preference in making a choice.
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