Comparison of amateur methods for joining panels and batten pockets

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  • 17 Aug 2018 07:52
    Reply # 6579145 on 6575635
    Jonathon wrote:

    Just finished a 180sq. ft cambered sail using improved amateur method 'C' and a $100 'heavy duty' household singer machine. A bit fiddly but after the first couple of panels and a stapler from the office everything went very well and look GREAT.  Took about 40hrs from start to finish including the patterns. Test sail this weekend, I'll post some pictures.

    That's good to hear, Jonathon. Did you also use the tucks that you were asking me about? I've become convinced that this combination, improved method C + tucks, is one of the better ways for first timers to make a good looking sail with the least effort and the least previous sewing experience. I look forward to seeing the pictures.
    Last modified: 17 Aug 2018 08:30 | Anonymous member
  • 15 Aug 2018 21:44
    Reply # 6575635 on 6549797

    Just finished a 180sq. ft cambered sail using improved amateur method 'C' and a $100 'heavy duty' household singer machine. A bit fiddly but after the first couple of panels and a stapler from the office everything went very well and look GREAT.  Took about 40hrs from start to finish including the patterns. Test sail this weekend, I'll post some pictures.

  • 14 Aug 2018 02:06
    Reply # 6563206 on 6562411
    Deleted user
    Ahhh, ok, I did miss the the not passing fabric through the machine part.

    I thought that seemed too simple, Thanx Paul and David.

    Part of the reason I'm planning around the aero rig is there is very little sewing involved.

    I found a sewing machine with a "Free" sign on the side of the road a while back, guess I better find some fabric and figure out how to use it.

    Bill

  • 14 Aug 2018 01:30
    Reply # 6562411 on 6559641
    Anonymous wrote:

    would sewing the panels together with enough space between stitch lines for a batten pocket work so the edges of the panels form the batten pocket?


    Bill

    Yes, it seems obvious, doesn't it, and I've used it. The problems are:
    • it will only work with straight edged panels
    • If the cloth is inclined to fray, the edges must be turned under, and it's not a quick and easy matter to position the folded edges correctly.
    • The worst aspect is that it's impossible to make a good job of finishing the ends of the pockets, where they lie within the body of the sail (it's OK when the pockets end right at the luff or leech).
    All in all, these methods in which the first step is to place the panels one on top of the other with the edges matching, and the pocket is a separate piece, are much easier to use.
    Last modified: 14 Aug 2018 10:31 | Anonymous member
  • 14 Aug 2018 01:08
    Reply # 6561998 on 6559641
    Anonymous wrote:

    would sewing the panels together with enough space between stitch lines for a batten pocket work so the edges of the panels form the batten pocket?


    Bill


    You are missing the point of these technique, namely not having to have a panel going through the arm of the machine. With a small sail, this is no big deal but a large sail often made in limited space, it makes a big difference if you do not need to pass the panel through the arm of the machine.
  • 13 Aug 2018 23:18
    Reply # 6559641 on 6549797
    Deleted user

    would sewing the panels together with enough space between stitch lines for a batten pocket work so the edges of the panels form the batten pocket?


    Bill

    1 file
    Last modified: 13 Aug 2018 23:24 | Deleted user
  • 13 Aug 2018 22:21
    Reply # 6558476 on 6557969
    Arne wrote:

    I see two advantages with Method B:

    ·         The panel joining seam gets maximum protection from sunshine and chafe.

    ·         In case a batten pocket must be replaced, the old one can be removed simply by ripping the batten pocket seam, and a new pocket can be fitted without need for rolling up half the sail to let it pass under the sewing machine.

    Then we'll have to differ on this, because I see those as hypothetical advantages. I've never had a panel seam failure, with modern UV-protected threads (though I have had cloth-to-cloth seam failures, where the panel was made from multiple cloths, due to topping lift chafe). I can't remember ever replacing a batten pocket, but in the case of 'C', it would be just as easy as with 'B' to rip the seam and insert a new pocket. As with a new sail, there's still no need to pass a roll under the machine.
    Last modified: 14 Aug 2018 10:32 | Anonymous member
  • 13 Aug 2018 22:08
    Reply # 6558213 on 6549797
    Gary wrote:
    David wrote:
    Gary wrote:
    David wrote:

    Another way of assembling sail panels and pockets - like Arne's method, this can be done in a small room, but with a much better result.


    Actually I like that. Not sure if I could fit them to my completed sail though it could be worth a try. The webbing loops work on my sail but it's not as tidy as pockets. Am I correct that the pockets have a built in back to them David?
    No, I screw through eyelets into the batten at both ends.
    What I meant was the batten pockets are sewn up as a tube and then sewn to the sail?

    Ah, I see. The pockets are not sewn as a tube, but they are basting-taped into a tubular form, before being basting-taped and then sewn to the sail. So yes, they have a built-in back, which protects the panel seam from the batten. Photos 5 to 9.

  • 13 Aug 2018 21:56
    Reply # 6557969 on 6549797
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    David,

    an important element (to me) in the way I execute Amateur Method B, is that I make it in two steps.

    ·         I first staple the two panels together  along the matching rounded sides and then make the single, zigzag panel joining seam (Chapter 5 of TCPJR).

    ·         After removing all staples, I fit the batten pocket (also using staples) and do my best to make this batten pocket seam  -  also zigzag  -  land on top of the panel joining seam. This is of course to minimise the distance between the batten pocket and the sail.

    I see two advantages with Method B:

    ·         The panel joining seam gets maximum protection from sunshine and chafe.

    ·         In case a batten pocket must be replaced, the old one can be removed simply by ripping the batten pocket seam, and a new pocket can be fitted without need for rolling up half the sail to let it pass under the sewing machine.

    On all your other versions, removing a batten pocket would involve picking the sail apart, unless you bring out a scissor and just cut away the damaged pocket, before fitting a conventional sailmaker’s pocket over it. I am not sure fitting them is faster than Method B either  -  I haven’t tried.

    Since my mission is to lure wannabes into making their own sails, I think the simplest way with the fewest or simplest work-operations is Amateur Method B.

    Arne


  • 13 Aug 2018 20:32
    Reply # 6556176 on 6549797

    Thanks, Ueli.

    Actually, I've found 'C' to be easier than 'B', as it's a simple matter of lining up all the edges. For preference, I'd give it a capping of folded lightweight 25mm webbing, for neatness and to protect it from UV and topping lift chafe, rather than the improved 'C' drawn, though that improved method is what I did on the sail that took me from Canada to NZ without issues.

    I haven't tried 'D', but it's a possible way to get the pocket stability of "Amateur method 'W' (Weaverbird), without having to pass a roll of cloth through the machine. 

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