Rope Materials

  • 04 Apr 2011 12:58
    Reply # 563723 on 554766
    Deleted user
    Spanish Whipping.  Neither of my knot books show this, and Google doesn't help - any chance of a description, or photos? Please.
  • 04 Apr 2011 04:17
    Reply # 562573 on 554766
    I will admit that my winch experience with Silver Stable was winching a 40ft racing trimaran strapped on a tandem wheel trailer across a paddock to where the crane could get at it. The rope was attached to a CQR anchor which we buried in the ground. it would impressively pull out of the ground every now and then.
  • 04 Apr 2011 04:01
    Reply # 562563 on 554766
    Silver Stable worked fine on Iron Bark and lasted for years.  But you would definitely want several extra tucks in the splices at the mast head.  We had no problems with it on winches either, although possibly you need an extra turn.  It's not that nice to handle, but at the price ...

    I find the PJR sizes OK, but would agree that 8mm for a halliard might be on the small side for a lot of hands.  It suits mine :-)

    Expensive ropes are best, but cheaper ones seem to do OK on junk rig, which is not unkind to them, especially if you ruthlessly eliminate most of your swiveling blocks.  We used stabilised polyprop (hemp 'lookalike') on Badger and loved it, but it did deteriorate in the sun and stretched, too.  It's lovely to use, holds a splice well, but I couldn't really recommend it for longevity.  Shame.  It may have improved but my local Rope Man didn't want to recommend the one he was selling, either. Apparently it was a European make.

    I don't trust splices in braid rope - I've seen too many pull out.  Cheaper ropes can 'creep', too.  I sew any eyes and then put a Spanish whipping on top.  The ones on Badger never seemed to deteriorate at all.  Where you can't actually handle them for a good visual examination, the Spanish whipping will warn of any chafe problems, standing proud as it does: if it chafes through you'll see an end sticking out for some time before it starts to pull through.  Worth using a contrasting whipping twine because they can then more easily be checked through binoculars.  (A contrasting-coloured whipping also makes it easier to find the end of the rope)

    I attached lines to loops on the sails with a double buntline hitch and use a topsail sheet bend through eyes on the end of the batten.  A rolling hitch to the battens, but found that I needed a small screw to stop them sliding.  The Prusik knot I tried also slid.

    The reason I am telling you the above is to fill you all with awe and admiration at my incredibly salty knot-tying abilities!  Also to see how many of you have read PJR throughly.  Knots are easier to adjust than splices and, judiciously selected, adequately strong for the job; especially with modern synthetic ropes. 
  • 04 Apr 2011 03:39
    Reply # 562542 on 554766
    I have to say my mind has been open on rope type. My original plan was to use Silver Stable but I've been a bit uneasy about using it for masthead applications because of the difficulty of replacement. Also if I remember rightly the Silver Staple doesn't handle winch drums very well, the tight turns on the drum tend to degrade the rope. I haven't found a good source for bulk Polyester here so my leaning is towards braided.
  • 03 Apr 2011 10:38
    Reply # 562144 on 554766
    Deleted user
    All of the lines on Easy Go are three strand twisted.  We chose good polyester three strand for its durability, repairability and cost effectiveness. We are testing UV stabalized polypropelene but the verdict is still out. Can't really comment on the attributes of braided line as I have not used it on the junk rig. I have used it for halyards and sheets on a sloop I once had and it was really nice but I found it kinked almost as much as twisted rope.

    The line sizes in PJR have worked well for us and we are satisfied. We did have concerns that they would be too small as we don't use winches and felt they might be hard on the hands. I don't think we would change the sizes up or down.

    Thanks for the excellent pictures of the knots David. Being an avid rope and knot person I enjoy seeing what other people are using successfully. I recommend the Ashley Book of Knots as the bible on knot making for sailors
    .
    Last modified: 03 Apr 2011 10:38 | Deleted user
  • 03 Apr 2011 02:11
    Reply # 561988 on 561962
    David Tyler wrote: In general, I've found that to buy cheap rope turns out to cost me more in the long term, so I try to buy good rope and look around for the deals. That is, try to buy wholesale, to buy a full reel of 100 metres (you'll use it all eventually), and so on. 
    For halyards, there's no question that only the best is good enough. It works harder than the other lines in a junk rig, and you will go aloft on it from time to time. My main halyard is 10mm Marlow, braid cover over a slow 3-strand core. It is lasting extremely well.
    I can back David on this. For halyards using high quality rope works. La Chica in her gaff rigged incarnation sailed for 16 years with the same set of Marlow double braid halyards.

    Of cause you do have to look after them and make sure that they are well protected from chafe. Else your lovely expensive halyards will soon be history.
    Last modified: 03 Apr 2011 02:11 | Anonymous member
  • 03 Apr 2011 01:25
    Reply # 561962 on 554766
    In general, I've found that to buy cheap rope turns out to cost me more in the long term, so I try to buy good rope and look around for the deals. That is, try to buy wholesale, to buy a full reel of 100 metres (you'll use it all eventually), and so on. 
    For halyards, there's no question that only the best is good enough. It works harder than the other lines in a junk rig, and you will go aloft on it from time to time. My main halyard is 10mm Marlow, braid cover over a slow 3-strand core. It is lasting extremely well. My mizzen halyard is 10mm treble braid (yes, treble braid) from a Spanish maker whose name I've forgotten. It is lasting extremely well. I wish I could get more of it, because it cost no more than double braid, and is much better rope.
    For sheets, lower grade rope is good enough - as long as the sheet is to be hand-hauled only. 10mm dinghy sheet rope costs less than double braid, and will do the job. However, if a winch is used, standard yacht-quality double braid becomes advisable.
    For the lifts, and the yard parrel, which both work quite hard, good double braid is advisable.
    For running luff parrels, and batten parrels, the demands are lower, and lower grade rope is OK.
    I try to get black or dark-coloured rope, for the same reason as I use black sail thread - longer life under UV exposure.
    I find the PJR rope sizes to be on the small side. I wouldn't want a heavily-loaded, hand-hauled line (halyard, yard parrel or mainsheet) to be less than 10mm. My mizzen sheet is 8mm, and is OK, because the loads are light. 
    Many braided ropes are difficult or impossible to splice. I've given up trying. I use what my "Encyclopaedia of knots and ropework" calls a "scaffold hitch". It is a semi-permanent knot that works on slippery, hard rope as well as more amenable rope. It can be made with a very short tail, and I have never known it to slip, once settled down. I use it on all running rigging. I've put some pictures into my photo albums.
  • 02 Apr 2011 23:40
    Reply # 561925 on 554766
    Deleted user
    I haven't actually spent any time sailing (with JR sails, anyhow), so I probably shouldn't speak up, but I've got some polyester single-braid ("Regatta braid by New England Ropes" which I plan to use for sheets, halyards, etc.  Unlike double-braid or three-strand, it doesn't want to kink or hockle, which is a huge bonus.  It will be less fun to splice, or may force me to do a service/seizing rather than a normal splice.  But it is very pleasant to use.

    I will probably get some 3-strand for parrels and such because it is so much easier to splice.  (also polyester)

    Has anybody found that the line sizes recommended in PJR are too big or too small?  I'm sizing mine based on their recommendations.
  • 28 Mar 2011 06:03
    Reply # 555686 on 555423
    Annie Hill wrote: Australia produces a superbly UV stabilised polypropylene rope, three-strand, called Silver-strand.  Readily available Down-under it is slightly hairy, slipper, shiny white and cheap as chips.  It takes a splice readily, but needs at least 5 tucks and most knots prefer either an extra turn, a long tail or a very hard tug when setting it up.  I considered using this on my new rig, but in small sizes it is quite hard to handle because it is a bit stiff (when new) and, as I said, slippery.  But 3 strand rope has a lot going for it, for the ease of splicing.

    I am in the happy situation of being able to buy my rope at commercial rates, even for 20 m lengths (the nice young man at Cookes giving me trade discounts).  For 8mm this was $1.50 a metre - CAN $1.10 UK 70p, which seemed pretty reasonable to me.  I also got 50 m of 6 mm for about $1 a metre because it was a 'short end'.  So I went for pretty braid instead of Silver-strand.

    On 'Badger' we used hemp lookalike, which was lovely to handle and to splice, but did get attacked by UV and also got quite long-jawed over time.

    In NZ the UV is a particular issue due to the clean air (not very noticeable in Nelson marina!) and the thin or non-existent ozone layer, but my nice young man at Cookes reckons that the polyester rope he sold me should be good for 15 years, even though it's white.  I've always found 3-strand polyester gets very hard and difficult to splice or force a needle through after 2 or 3 years.

    It's called Silver Staple and it's what I am planning to use as well. It's cheap enough to buy 8-10mm for easy handling.
    https://www.whitworths.com.au/main_itemdetail.asp?cat=153&item=180828&intAbsolutePage=1
    Gary
  • 27 Mar 2011 20:37
    Reply # 555423 on 554766
    Australia produces a superbly UV stabilised polypropylene rope, three-strand, called Silver-strand.  Readily available Down-under it is slightly hairy, slipper, shiny white and cheap as chips.  It takes a splice readily, but needs at least 5 tucks and most knots prefer either an extra turn, a long tail or a very hard tug when setting it up.  I considered using this on my new rig, but in small sizes it is quite hard to handle because it is a bit stiff (when new) and, as I said, slippery.  But 3 strand rope has a lot going for it, for the ease of splicing.

    I am in the happy situation of being able to buy my rope at commercial rates, even for 20 m lengths (the nice young man at Cookes giving me trade discounts).  For 8mm this was $1.50 a metre - CAN $1.10 UK 70p, which seemed pretty reasonable to me.  I also got 50 m of 6 mm for about $1 a metre because it was a 'short end'.  So I went for pretty braid instead of Silver-strand.

    On 'Badger' we used hemp lookalike, which was lovely to handle and to splice, but did get attacked by UV and also got quite long-jawed over time.

    In NZ the UV is a particular issue due to the clean air (not very noticeable in Nelson marina!) and the thin or non-existent ozone layer, but my nice young man at Cookes reckons that the polyester rope he sold me should be good for 15 years, even though it's white.  I've always found 3-strand polyester gets very hard and difficult to splice or force a needle through after 2 or 3 years.
       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
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