Boltropes and seams for sails

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  • 01 Mar 2011 20:59
    Reply # 535631 on 535452

    So I'm not trying to "cheat" on this--just trying to figure out what is too weak, what is too strong (i.e. extra work and weight), and what is just right. 

    And I have to say that any way of sewing on a batten pocket that doesn't require me to push half the sail through the arm of the sewing machine sure looks worth trying if it will hold up!

    Barry
    Do you know about the "C-clip" method of passing material through the machine? Cut a short length of 3" or 4" plastic pipe, slit it lengthways, and slide it over the roll of cloth to be passed under the arm (3 of these clips for a wide sail). Makes the job very easy. 

    If you start at the bottom, join the second panel to the first and then make all the batten arrangements; join the third to the second and make the batten arrangements, and so on, you are passing a very small roll under the arm. Getting the sequence right of adding pieces and sewing them is half the battle of making a big sail, so that you don't have to try to sew in the middle of a near-complete sail. That really is a nightmare. 

    Another thing guaranteed to give me nightmares on the proverbial dark and stormy night at sea would be a sail seam in which the forces in the cloth are trying to rip the seam apart - as is the case when you use the simple method of placing one panel on top of the other and sewing along the edge. You can improve it by then making it into a "flat seam", as on a pair of jeans, but then you are having to pass a roll of cloth under the arm, so nothing is gained.
  • 01 Mar 2011 17:41
    Reply # 535452 on 535055
    Deleted user
    Well, I do plan on sailing across oceans.  I believe our cruising style will involve getting "stuck" in harbor due to enjoying the people and the place a lot more than many ocean-going cruisers, but there will still be some serious sea miles traveled in between. 

    FYI, that is part of why I want lots of light-air sail area--I've heard from world cruisers that wind conditions vary quite a lot, and there is plenty of light air sailing time, as well as a lot more time fairly hard on the wind than they might like.  (Of course, there are plenty of storms, plus lots of nice downwind sailing....but I believe that any decent junk rig will behave well in those conditions.)

    So I'm not trying to "cheat" on this--just trying to figure out what is too weak, what is too strong (i.e. extra work and weight), and what is just right. 

    And I have to say that any way of sewing on a batten pocket that doesn't require me to push half the sail through the arm of the sewing machine sure looks worth trying if it will hold up!

    Barry
  • 01 Mar 2011 05:50
    Reply # 535093 on 535055
    It depends on what the sail is going to be used for. A "weekends-and-holidays" sail, doing less than a thousand miles a year, can be made by "quick'n'dirty" methods. An ocean-crossing sail, doing 10,000 miles a year - well that's a different story. Put in the time and effort now, and you won't regret it further on down the track. Making lap joints between panels, so that the stitching is in shear, is not in the least bit difficult if you use sailmaker's double sided sticky tape to assemble the panels first, and will pay off in longevity. A patch under the batten pocket will protect the sail against chafe from the batten. A patch on the other side will protect the sail against chafe from the topping lifts. A wide doubler down the luff and leech will help to stop the cloth fluttering, which is a source of breakdown. Multiple patches at the peak, particularly, but also at the batten ends, spread the loads out into the sail and reduce stretching. And so on, and so on. None of this is wasted effort, if you want your sails to last, and keep their shape. If you're going ocean cruising, you need to do the job once and do it right, rather than having to keep going back to add more strength.
    With webbing, strength and stretch are not the issues. Anything you can buy will be strong enough, but polypropylene has poor UV and chafe resistance, so don't use it. At the edges of the sail, it's not so much about stretch and strength as about protecting the edge of the sail from everything that is trying to fray it. Doubled over webbing does this job very well, but it's more difficult to sew on 1" webbing. 2" webbing is easier. I like webbing loops that go around the batten ends in shallow grooves to tension the sail, and I like webbing loops for sheet attachments. A sailmaker here in Tasmania (who is making his first junk sail, from Odyssey) tells me that he much prefers Dyneema webbing for this kind of usage, because it is much more UV and chafe resistant, and is much stronger, so very small sizes can be used. I don't like webbing loops in place of batten pockets, because it takes me a lot longer to stitch them on.
  • 01 Mar 2011 04:26
    Message # 535055
    Deleted user
    I'm trying to figure out some of the details regarding how to put our sail together, and I've read the comments about how sailmakers want to overbuild things way beyond the stresses that a junk sail sees.  So help me figure out what I really need to do here.

    Flutterby's two sails will be around 500 and 300 square feet, with 18-foot and 11-foot battens.  (Unless I change my mind again)

    I've read Arne's description of how sail panels are joined....and it looks like a single seam is holding the two panels together, with another one holding the batten pocket on.  Is this really all it takes, even for a sail this big?  (My main is similar size to Johanna's)

    And reading about boltropes big enough to hold the sail without excess stretch--I've heard some mention of webbing and other of sewing a rope inside the hem.  The webbing we're finding is mostly one inch wide or two inch wide (seat belt webbing).  Either seems pretty strong and low-stretch if in polyester.  Looking to compare specifications, I find that the 1" webbing is specified with a breaking strength comparable to polyester line from 6mm to 12mm (webbing specs I've found vary a lot.  Likely the thickness does with it.)  I don't see specifications for stretch, but I can't see why it would be too far off of line at the same percentage of breaking strength.

    Loops of webbing can be sewn on for connecting up the boltrope to battens, for attaching the yard and the boom, and to attach sheetlets.

    I'm having trouble convincing myself that I need stronger or lower-stretch material for any of these things than the halyards, so I would think the one inch (25mm) webbing should do the job on my sails.  Does this sound right?

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