Bio-based composites

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  • 01 Oct 2017 20:04
    Reply # 5289833 on 5049554
    If you ever get a look at LLoyd Kahn's book "Tiny Homes on the Move" there's a few junk rigs in there, and also a small jute/polyester resin composite boat called Tara Tiri. A young woman bought it off the builder and has been ocean voyaging with it. 

    Tara Tiri

  • 30 Sep 2017 18:31
    Reply # 5288852 on 5288794
    Antoine Maartens wrote:

    Wicked video Richard! Very glad I only have to watch it and not having to take something like that across an ocean.

    Great innovation too!

    I'm busy innovating too.
  • 30 Sep 2017 17:58
    Reply # 5288794 on 5049554

    Wicked video Richard! Very glad I only have to watch it and not having to take something like that across an ocean.

    Great innovation too!

  • 29 Sep 2017 20:11
    Reply # 5287816 on 5049554

    Readers of this thread might be interested in this video about Arkema's Mini Transat, make of recyclable composite material.

    Other people might be interested in the wingsail, among other things.

    Last modified: 29 Sep 2017 20:13 | Anonymous member
  • 04 Sep 2017 10:12
    Reply # 5062240 on 5049554
    Deleted user

    old hulls

    yes, a bit of a problem but not as much as you would think

    to chop them up (chain saw) throw the lumps in with stone in a crusher and then use for road repairs. pots holes would not be so bad and the road repair might last longer than a few days.

    down side would people start taking perfectly good boats to the crusher to receive so much a tonne would they be that dishonest. who knows. but at the end of the day, this is not an impossible task just one that needs thought and money.

    But when we talk about bio based compossits it does not mean that they will break down like the super market bag, it means that the raw base oils are sort from grown or natural sources and not from fossil oil and being through a refinery six or seven times.

    Most additives that we try to use more of are the natural products such as wood flour and celi fibres, however, we at the moment seem to be stuck with glass which is a good product except it uses a lot of energy to produce and deliver, most currently coming from china and Germany.

    I don't see in our life times a boat that will be easy to recycle as insurance and owners want them to go through a 100-year storm with no damage. I can see a tax on boats so that the cost of disposing of them can be met, which will push prices of new hulls up which might mean people do more refitting. That, for now, would be the best option

    Last modified: 04 Sep 2017 11:14 | Deleted user
  • 03 Sep 2017 18:52
    Reply # 5061562 on 5059956
    Annie Hill wrote:You really need to spray them with something, or flick a switch or say the magic word, when you decide it's time they started degrading.  For the poor and frugal, it could end up that you'd be living surrounded by stuff slowly mouldering away. 

    Just like the old days, come to think of it!

    We spend an awful lot of energy and materials trying to prevent things from degrading. From this article, it appears the "magic word" might be to burn your GRP hull in a cement kiln.  Summary: the resin burns, and the glass becomes clinker for cement. Perhaps the cement could be used to make ferroboats!

    I suspect the biggest impact might be to encourage refitting of old hulls.

  • 01 Sep 2017 23:19
    Reply # 5059956 on 5059186
    David Tyler wrote:If a bio-based composite boat could be made to bio-degrade, then we'd be getting somewhere. So long as it didn't degrade while I was sailing it offshore, that is.
    Yes, I've always thought that this could be a problem with bio-degradable artefacts.  You really need to spray them with something, or flick a switch or say the magic word, when you decide it's time they started degrading.  For the poor and frugal, it could end up that you'd be living surrounded by stuff slowly mouldering away. 

    Just like the old days, come to think of it!

  • 01 Sep 2017 13:40
    Reply # 5059186 on 5049554

    But that paper only goes part of the way. If flax fibre is a lot lighter than glass, and less weight is used, then the cost per tonne of finished laminate should be less than for GRP. 

    Also to be considered is recycling. There are old GRP boats mouldering away at the top of every creek on the planet, and no sensible way of getting rid of them. If a bio-based composite boat could be made to bio-degrade, then we'd be getting somewhere. So long as it didn't degrade while I was sailing it offshore, that is.

    Last modified: 01 Sep 2017 13:41 | Anonymous member
  • 01 Sep 2017 12:48
    Reply # 5059169 on 5054229
    Scott Dufour wrote:

    Here's a paper on the direct comparison - and surprisingly it boils down to this sentence at the moment:

    "Continuous glass fibre reinforcement appears to be superior from an environmental energy viewpoint to spun flax yarn."

    Continuous glass fibre reinforcement appears to be superior from an
    environmental energy viewpoint to spun flax yarn
    Not only that, we're extremely unlikely to run out of silicon oxide.

    Wikipedia has a useful article on biocomposites, and Entropy Resins is one company I found offering bio-sourced resin.

    I certainly like the sound of a wood composite where the resin is called "super sap"!
  • 29 Aug 2017 17:23
    Reply # 5054229 on 5049554
    Deleted user

    Here's a paper on the direct comparison - and surprisingly it boils down to this sentence at the moment:

    "Continuous glass fibre reinforcement appears to be superior from an environmental energy viewpoint to spun flax yarn."



    Continuous glass fibre reinforcement appears to be superior from an
    environmental energy viewpoint to spun flax yarn


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