Athwartship Gimballed Stove design.

  • 16 Aug 2017 17:07
    Reply # 5032509 on 5029095
    Deleted user
    Peter Scandling wrote:

    Scott

    I've just been catching up with your project.  The stove is an interesting idea, I'd suggest you could do worse than look at the Atom Voyages stove design which could be set up either way.. because it's round.

    Of course it depends on what set up you want in terms of number of burners etc.

    Best of luck

    Peter


    Sorry for not responding earlier, Peter.  Yes, I'm a fan of James Baldwin and I've looked this way before. I think I need a two burner, though.

    I'm certainly glad I posted here - I was headed down an unnecessarily complicated path, apparently.  I had originally intended to put in a full oven/stove combination, but my First Mate & Cook has been using the Omnia Stove Top Oven a lot recently, and she's fallen in love with its simplicity and efficacy.  So no oven needed - which apparently means no athwartship gimballing needed - or even particularly feasible from David's analysis.

    I contacted Rodger Martin, the designer of the gimballed oven setups mentioned by Lin Pardey.  He's right down the road from me.  He did mention a few other installations, but we haven't gotten into specifics yet.

    Perhaps if someone were putting in the whole oven, they'd still find this approach useful?

    But I also have to ask a more naive question, perhaps: Why aren't athwartship fixed stove tops more common in production boats?

    Last modified: 16 Aug 2017 17:32 | Deleted user
  • 16 Aug 2017 15:45
    Reply # 5032384 on 5028985

    Here's the thing, Scott. The athwartships pivoting stove is a full-on hob plus oven, giving a lot more depth and weight than a hob alone. And the cabinet work adds more weight ( and a lot more bulk). What you have achieve is to keep the CG of the w hole shebang from wandering too far from the fore and aft line of the pivots, and that's next to impossible with a hob alone.

  • 16 Aug 2017 15:19
    Reply # 5032329 on 5028985
    Deleted user

    From Lin Pardey's Care and Feeding of the Sailing Crew, 4th Ed.:

    I have a passion for commercial boats, and I've never been on one that was fitted with a gimbaled stove. I had the dubious but interesting privilege of being cook on a 100-ton Costa Rican shrimp trawler for a month. I fed our crew of six with little difficulty, using oversize pots clamped to a 3-inch-high sea rail on a solidly attached stove. A shrimp boat may not heel like a sailboat, but it sure can roll.

    On Seraffyn, we bolted our oversize cooker amidships to the aft side of our forward bulkhead. We had a 3-inch-high solid bronze sea rail with great, easy-to-use clamps. Twice we were on our beam ends—once because of an unexpected williwaw and the second time because of a hurricane. Both times our high-profile, 6-cup coffee percolator stayed put.

    What did I do when we were beating to windward? Lucidly, Seraffyn was a beamy boat and didn't immediately assume a 30-degree heel. About 15 to 20 degrees is right. More than that and ifs time to shorten down. Taleisin, her five foot longer big sister, is the same.. So, deeper pots solve the problem. Since we rarely race Taleisin long distances, I could usually get Larry to shorten down for mealtime. During an ocean passage, five minutes lost means little. Living on board means about 8o or 85 percent of our cooking is done in port. That leaves only 15 percent to be done at sea, and odds are that half of that should be with fair winds and calm seas. (Odds have been against us at times, I will admit.)

    One special advantage of having an athwartships-mounted nongimbaled stove—i.e. the cook is facing either fore or aft when using the stove—is that if the liquid in a pot does overflow or boil over, it usually spills either to port or to starboard, not toward the cook.

    In 1985, we met Doug and Joanna Watson in Tonga when they were heading home from a cruise on 36-foot Ben Hall. As I was showing them the safety features of Taleisin's athwartships-mounted stove, I remember Larry saying, "If we had another 8 or 9 inches of beam, I'd gimbal our stove athwartships and have the best of all worlds—the safety of keeping the cook clear of spills, no fear of the oven door overbalancing the stove when it was opened, and the advantage of taking up less space than a normal gimbaled stove."

    Five years later, we visited Joanna and Doug in Sydney and had a tour of the almost completed Ben Hall II, designed for them by Rodger Martin. There was the stove exactly as we had envisioned it, taking up far less space than a side-mounted gimbaled stove (fig. 24).


    Rodger Martin took his stove idea a step further when he designed Katie G for the well-known U.S. East Coast boatbuilder Eric Goetz. In Eric's words, "The stove lives in its own module, which gimbals as a unit. This enables the cook to stand aft of the stove, never downhill from the hot soup. The module also provides level surfaces, which are covered with stainless steel, on which to place the hot kettle. The funny-angled face outboard of the oven allows one to open the oven even heeled." (See figs. 25 and 26, plus photographs.) Katie G is 40 feet in length. I think her stove arrangement nears perfection.


    If space for a large stove and oven is a problem on your boat, consider installing the oven separate from the top burners. Although this means additional plumbing, it worked wonderfully for Bill Townsend on his 40-foot light-displacement cruiser, and it led to a safe, easy-to-clean gimbaled burner arrangement. Bill's oven was mounted against the bulkhead at the aft end of the galley. 



    The burners were set on gimbals in a stainless-steel-lined depression along the side counter of the galley. A drain leading from the depression into a Y connection on the galley sink drain made it easy to flush away spills. Bill had three burners on his gimbaled stove. The front of the depression created a good handhold for the cook and made it impossible for anyone to bump into the stove in a seaway.



  • 16 Aug 2017 08:22
    Reply # 5031790 on 5031496
    Graham Cox wrote:

    The Pardeys speak very highly of their fixed (ungimballed) athwartships stove, like David Thatcher they used it in all sorts of weather at sea.  All the old trawlers used this sort of set up too.  I am very wary of my gimballed stove and would mount it athwartships if I had the space.  Besides robust pot clamps, deep pots are recommended by the Pardeys.  The gimball pivot points of my Broadwater stove are about 100mm above the stovetop surface.  The stove is also very heavy and robust, with a slow swing, but there have been conditions in which I was reluctant to use it.  At least with an athwartships stove, the spaghetti bolognaise only ends up in your bunk, not all over the cook!


    I had a fixed, athwartships stove on Badger and never once missed cooking a proper meal, regardless of the conditions.  I can't say the same applied with the stove on Iron Bark which, frankly, scared me in rough weather, although the Taylor's mounting was more than adequate and the stove very well controlled, regardless of what pans were on top.  The Taylors mounts are at the level of the hotplate, as Hiscock recommends, and I have to say it never got out of sync.  But I was strapped in to a galley belt and couldn't move quickly out of the way if anything did happen.  But you do need tall pans and I recommend a wok for the perfect fried egg!
  • 16 Aug 2017 08:02
    Reply # 5031785 on 5028985

    An athwartships pivoting two burner stove is a disaster, but two athwartships single burner stoves, each pivoting independently, is not - if it's worth the bother.

    Neither is worth the bother on a boat that doesn't heel far, but might be on an older, deeper, less beamy boat. Might the better solution in this case be a stove mounted on a "see-saw" that can easily be fixed at one of three angles - level, usually, but tilted to port or starboard for cooking when crashing to windward?

  • 16 Aug 2017 07:48
    Reply # 5031781 on 5031362
    Annie Hill wrote:

    BTW, David, what are you cooking on at present?

    Still my home made single burner stove, with a Maxie meths burner mounted in the base of a fixed 18cm cast aluminium pan and some cross bars higher up as pan supports.
  • 16 Aug 2017 00:57
    Reply # 5031496 on 5028985

    The Pardeys speak very highly of their fixed (ungimballed) athwartships stove, like David Thatcher they used it in all sorts of weather at sea.  All the old trawlers used this sort of set up too.  I am very wary of my gimballed stove and would mount it athwartships if I had the space.  Besides robust pot clamps, deep pots are recommended by the Pardeys.  The gimball pivot points of my Broadwater stove are about 100mm above the stovetop surface.  The stove is also very heavy and robust, with a slow swing, but there have been conditions in which I was reluctant to use it.  At least with an athwartships stove, the spaghetti bolognaise only ends up in your bunk, not all over the cook!

    Last modified: 16 Aug 2017 01:43 | Anonymous member
  • 15 Aug 2017 22:22
    Reply # 5031362 on 5028985

    The Pardeys had a fixed cooker, with oven, mounted athwartships.  Does the book say who used this arrangement and how well it worked? 

    You can copy and paste text (scan as pdf then highlight text, then paste it into a text file.  If you use .odt or .docx, it confuses the forum formatter).  Then highlight all that and paste it onto the forum page.  Put the pic in your album - Wild Apricot only allows us so much data and too many large illustrations on the fora will eventually use it up.

    Graham - my beef with pivoting stoves (apart from the sheer discomfort of wearing oilskins in the tropics) is that time in harbour when the catamaran ferry comes past.  Or you slip on the floor, reach out for the bar in front of the cooker and lean on the cooker by mistake, while the pasta is boiling.  No - give me a fixed athwartships cooker any time.  David and I designed in a conventional pivoting stove, but the more I've thought about it, the less I've wanted it.

    BTW, David, what are you cooking on at present?

    Last modified: 15 Aug 2017 22:27 | Anonymous member
  • 15 Aug 2017 20:40
    Reply # 5031218 on 5028985
    Deleted user
    Scott Dufour wrote:

    In keeping with non-conventional choices I've made in other areas, I'm planning on an athwartship giballed stove in Moon River.  It will be just starboard of the centerline in the U-Shaped galley, the cook facing forward.  There are as many opinions about this idea as there are about... well, everything boatish.  But I'm going ahead with it anyway.


    If the stove is going to be athwartships then it does not need to be gimballed, which I think is the whole point of mounting athwartships. We have a full stove and oven mounted across the boat on Footprints, (near the centerline). and even in the very rough ocean sea conditions during our New Caledonia trip were were able to cook without any problems. But you do need good potholders which clamp pots and pans firmly in place on the stove top.
    Last modified: 15 Aug 2017 21:09 | Deleted user
  • 15 Aug 2017 14:40
    Reply # 5030595 on 5028985
    Deleted user

    I'd like to post two pages from Lin Pardey's book mentioned below, with 3 or 4 figures (photos and diagrams).  Wordcount is about 500.  

    Webmaster / Someone in the Know:  would that be okay on this forum? 

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