Kurt, david, our rig is exactly as Jock handed on to us---- not sure yet whether we are sailing a grade one listed monument or should we refine it? weve only been voyaging in her for the last two years and still have much to learn and understand. So well carry on as "standard" forthe next year or two and then see!

as for super light airs and that junk rig bane---slatting!---   my antidote is to get the fishin gear out and forget about forward progress! time for bed here in portugal , night! tony

David Tyler wrote:

Kurt Jon Ulmer wrote:

One thing I like about our flat junk sails is that they don't heel the boat nearly as much as the curvaceous Bermudan ones we used to have, (or the cambered junk ones we could have.)

- At least the top third of the sail looks nicely, suitably curved anyways, when I look up from the deck, and I think it does to the wind also. It's definitely not flat.

"Moderation in all things" - that's the key, I reckon. A flat sail is comfortable, but not fast. A well-cambered sail of any type is fast but not comfortable. I advocate a mildly cambered sail for offshore and voyaging use, maybe 4% to 6% designed camber. Arne advocates a camber of 8% to 10% for inshore sailing. We're both right.

The camber that develops in a flat-cut, but fanned, sail is the "fiendishly-clever Chinese" way of getting camber for nothing. That's why I don't think anyone should make a purely Hasler-style sail nowadays, but should look at the later planforms.

David, having had a junk schooner and a catamaran before Ron Glas we were well used to easing sheets to get any real drive, however we are astonished at Ron Glas`s ability to drive to wind. 50` off the wind is her fastest and best point of sail, she will point higher but  not as fast with increasing leeway as one pinches, IM talking "normal" lumpy seaway not flat calm -- but this seems OK for 16.5 tons of floating home ,should I want better?

again is this not down to hull form? Ron Glas has a few vices but sailing aint one of them!

Kurt,yes I agree--[and am I alone in thinking 5 knots passage speed makes the maths easy!!]   we have a total mix of battens---   some aluminium, some heavy ,some light , some wooden, the net effect is a good sail shape WHEN FULL SAIL IS HOIST--- howevever I do think the  flat rig starts to loose its efficiency if one reefs too early- but as you say ,the flat sail allows you to carry more sail with less heeling for longer--- typically we start to reef in 20knots plus. by then the reefed sail is fine in terms of drive. I suspect that the modern rigs drive better to wind when deeply reefed--- is this true arne, david???--- but is hull form not the real limiter?

as to light weather sails --no we dont use them, despite her weight to sail area Ron Glas just keeps sailing-----albeit quite slowly in very light airs.  as to sheets fouling-- no problem  despite the fact that the distance between main and foresail is less than the minimum that Jock specifies in PJR!!

TONY AND SALLY SUMMERS wrote: Nothing wrong with flat sails in our opinion---  We are still sailing Ron Glas on Jock`s second set of sails--1987-- still going fine. In fact we still have the original 1971 sails on board and short of a bit of restitching they  are OK !! We dont find the sails "slow"-- certainly comfortable but the boat is fast enough-- we are often reefing to keep the speed down below 7knots --- personally I find any faster becomes uncomfortable.The latest sailforms are very interesting and all power to those of you that are pushing new ideas----  when the time comes to replace Ron Glas`s sails we will probably stick to the original flat design!