Flat? Yes (the sailcloth).  Hinged? No.  Cambered? Yes

Being just from a fjord sailing guy, my words have limited weight, but I just feel tempted to jump into the thread and mention one way to make a cambered sail where I combine the advantage of a “flat sewn” sailcloth with the advantage of no hinges in the battens.

Instead of using hinges I have curved (bent) my battens permanently, thus the batten provides camber while being in one piece structurally.  The battens flip a half turn “around themselves” when I tack.  However, to make this work, I have made “swivels” at each batten end and also a swivel at the aft end of the batten parrel.  With these in place, the canvas does not wind up on the batten and also the batten parrel does not get wound up on the batten when the batten rotates the half turn.  You may well say that this isn’t simpler than hinges as I have made those other moving parts instead, but on the positive side the swivels are “low stress” parts compared to the hinges.  

So what makes the battens turn?  Simply the wind force on the sail, but they need a little help when there is almost no wind. I am thinking of making a video showing how the battens rotate the half turn when I tack, but I now have an ugly tarp sailcloth and would like to make a new and nicer sailcloth first, so it will maybe happen next year.

Cheers 

Nils

You could well be right, David, but I am not convinced. As for looks  -  the hinges don’t look bad inside batten pockets. Besides, I was talking of all-aluminium hinges (better make the plug in the middle of aluminium too). My battens and hinges on Malena were round, so could swing in any directions. No hinge pins needed. After 2-3 seasons of use, there were no signs at all that the sharp edges (which had been rounded with a file) on the battens and hinges had chewed on each other. This came as a surprise to me. I don’t have x-ray eyes so cannot tell if the batten pockets were worn inside, but I doubt it, since the hinges didn’t move around.

Now I see Annie is bringing in the word ‘Fiji’ here. That makes a big difference from the coastal cruising I was thinking of. Even better reason for dropping the hinges entirely. There should be no reason why her planned sail could not be made with conventional camber. Hinges are simply not needed.

Arne

The hinges in Weaverbird's battens, made from nylon 66 - simple, robust, do not chafe the sail or fret the batten tubes, proven over 3000 miles.

Annie, 

if you have to use batten hinges (no one has to do that), then I would rather recommend these 'outside hinges (on aluminium battens). They may look crude, but from an engineer's point of view, these will always be stronger than 'inside' hinges. Any one with a hacksaw, a file, a drill and a bit hardwood and glue can make this thing. It is basically a variation of the hinges I made for Malena in '91. They held up well. To avoid black stain from the aluminium, I guess painting in two-pot paint will do the trick.

Arne 

David Tyler wrote:

Arne wrote:

Webmaster,
Are you sure this belongs in the General Forum and not in the Technical Forum?

Arne

I agree, this is very much a technical topic.

I agree that it could fit into the Technical Forum, within the description of:

discuss matters to do with improving the junk and related rigs

But, referring back to the original questions on both topics, I chose to put it in the general forum with reference to:

request advice on choosing and using a junk rig

To my (admittedly pedantic) eye, the use of 'a' instead of 'the' suggested this as the best place for what is essentially a discussion of which variety of junk rig to use.

However, either Forum will work, and if you both still feel it should be in the Technical Forum, I can easily move it across.  As two of our most prolific posters, you have a good 'feel' for what fits where.

Mark