New split rig for "China Girl"

  • 05 Nov 2016 03:49
    Reply # 4365251 on 4365050
    Arne Kverneland wrote:

    Chris proposed rig is looking good, for sure, but...

    frankly, if I were to make a split JR, I would aim for a planform very close to that of Slieve’s Poppy. It may not look as elegant as this elliptical planform, but the Poppy rig has three advantages:

    ·         Many identical panels makes the lofting and sewing job a lot easier.

    ·         A sail, which is wider higher up, adds sail area, and a generous sail area is very useful for downwind sailing, something we do a lot of the time.

    ·         The vertical leech prevents the sheetlets from getting caught by the batten ends or under the boom, when tacking or gybing.

    Boring arguments, maybe, but that is how I am wired:

    “Easy handling beats performance,
    and
     performance beats fancy looks”...

    Me again...

    Arne

     


    Arne, 100% with you on this one.
  • 04 Nov 2016 23:50
    Reply # 4365115 on 4365095
    David Tyler wrote: Doesn't this remind you of Passe Patu's sails, Annie? I seem to recall you saying how bad at snagging their sheets they were with a tapered planform, and how they really had to be recut to have their luffs and leeches parallel.
    I still haven't got my head round all the details of the split rig. 

    From my experience, curved leech can give problems.  I don't think the luff would be an issue, on a single-masted boat, but I suspect you might have to extend the battens at the leech in order to stop snagging.  But I assumed Chris had thought about this and was making a model of the sail as such, rather than how it would look when complete.  No doubt he will use longer battens in real life, to prevent the sheets catching.

  • 04 Nov 2016 22:53
    Reply # 4365095 on 4365011
    Annie Hill wrote:Looking good, Chris.  I would guess that you are hoping to get the sail made this winter.  Did you get much chance to sail the existing rig this summer, so that you will be able to sense the difference between the two?

    I may do likewise, but will have to make the panels, too, in my quest to make a sail that will set properly with minimal loads on the running lines.  This can't be tested without the cloth between the battens!


    Doesn't this remind you of Passe Patu's sails, Annie? I seem to recall you saying how bad at snagging their sheets they were with a tapered planform, and how they really had to be recut to have their luffs and leeches parallel.
  • 04 Nov 2016 22:19
    Reply # 4365050 on 4293731
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Chris proposed rig is looking good, for sure, but...

    frankly, if I were to make a split JR, I would aim for a planform very close to that of Slieve’s Poppy. It may not look as elegant as this elliptical planform, but the Poppy rig has three advantages:

    ·         Many identical panels makes the lofting and sewing job a lot easier.

    ·         A sail, which is wider higher up, adds sail area, and a generous sail area is very useful for downwind sailing, something we do a lot of the time.

    ·         The vertical leech prevents the sheetlets from getting caught by the batten ends or under the boom, when tacking or gybing.

    Boring arguments, maybe, but that is how I am wired:

    “Easy handling beats performance,
    and
     performance beats fancy looks”...

    Me again...

    Arne

     


  • 04 Nov 2016 21:30
    Reply # 4365011 on 4293731
    Looking good, Chris.  I would guess that you are hoping to get the sail made this winter.  Did you get much chance to sail the existing rig this summer, so that you will be able to sense the difference between the two?

    I may do likewise, but will have to make the panels, too, in my quest to make a sail that will set properly with minimal loads on the running lines.  This can't be tested without the cloth between the battens!


  • 04 Nov 2016 12:49
    Reply # 4364111 on 4293731
    Deleted user

    Always sceptical of computer models, I have made a 'stick and string' model of the rig at a scale of 1:12, using 12mm, 8mm and 5mm dowels. Halyard, lower sheet and spanned downhauls in place.

    Chris

    Last modified: 04 Nov 2016 13:25 | Deleted user
  • 14 Oct 2016 10:14
    Reply # 4305208 on 4293731
    Deleted user

    Hi Stuart

    Yes, I have thought about this too, not only a potential obstruction in terms of wind strength reduction, but also possible creating turbulence in just the area where you least want it. Would also depend on mesh size, I guess.

    The only way to know for sure is to try it out on one panel. But first, "build your sail".

    Chris
  • 14 Oct 2016 10:05
    Reply # 4305204 on 4293731
    Deleted user

    Not having any experience of Junks or Junk rigs or aerodynamics, but an avid follower of this website, I was interested in you idea of using mesh at the leach of the jiblets of your proposed rig. I don't know if it's applicable but a few years ago I spoke to man who was involved in spraying foam insulation on the outside of roofs of buildings and I asked how, on windy days, they stopped the wind blowing the spray all over the place, and he said that they hung a net around the work area and this was sufficient to reduce the wind speed. I wonder if the mesh would do the same and reduce the airflow.

     Thinking about it it would be like the drag of the wires and struts on a bi-plane.

    P.S.Beautiful photo

  • 13 Oct 2016 22:24
    Reply # 4304548 on 4293731
    Deleted user

    While discussing my boat I thought I'd share this photo my wife took of China Girl on her mooring on the Tamar just below Calstock Viaduct one early Sunday morning a couple of weeks ago.

    Considering it was taken with a well-known fruity brand of smartphone, I was quite impressed.

    Chris

  • 12 Oct 2016 09:31
    Reply # 4301721 on 4293731

    "Would this be workable? And useful?"

    Chris, I believe you are asking the right questions here.

    It is in our interest to build the most efficient rig we can think off, but then remove as many of the complications as we can. Since the start with the split rig I have experimented with additional jib leech sheets and mini-sheets, and believe there is some gain to be made, but at what cost? On Amiina's latest rig the sails are placed on the centre line of the battens and not to the outside or inside so that a light sheetlet can be attached to the leech of the jib and the luff of the main panel and have equal tension on both tacks. We also added short batten pockets to the centre line of each jib to experiment with short bendy battens to help pull in the centre of the leech and have played around with this setup. 

    Without a second identical boat to sail against it is so difficult (read impossible) to judge if there is any significant gain from such experiments, so we have always ended up with your expression above "and useful?". I am a fully paid up member of the "KISS" system, and the junk rig encourages this attitude. We seem to be getting adequate performance without the added complication, and having considered an open mesh in the past I have been concerned that it might 'hook' the leech of the jib which I believe we do not want, so have not tried it. It would be great if someone tried it, but it is more complication. (Thinking about it, it would not be too difficult to hand tack a piece of open mesh to the leech of a jib panel and the luff of the main and see and photograph how it set. I would do it to the second panel up as the bottom one suffers from a degree of vertical flow as the air escapes round the bottom.)

    Call me lazy and I won't disagree, 

    Cheers, Slieve.

    Last modified: 12 Oct 2016 09:43 | Anonymous member
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