Inspired by this thread, I spent a very rainy morning today comparing my old and new-old sewing machines.  I've been saving my pennies for a Sailrite, but after reading Arne's and Paul's comments, I found an inexpensive Pfaff 1222e nearby and decided to give it a try.  The three machines I have are a Kenmore 158.512 (early 1960's era), a Singer 401A (old machine, all metal drive train with an add-on walking foot), and now the Pfaff which has a built-in walking foot called IDT.

The Kenmore only has a lower feed dog, and I've had problems with it feeding thick fabric in the past.  With small projects this isn't too bad, but when you have to give your attention to a big bundle of fabric it often resulted in uneven stitches, dropped stitches or other trouble.  The Singer 401A is a rugged old machine, and with the add-on walking foot it feeds much nicer than my Kenmore ever did, but still nothing like a Sailrite machine.  The Pfaff differs from my other two in that it has a second feed dog that is located above the fabric that is driven entirely independently of the needle (add-on walking feet get powered by the needle bar).  This particular Pfaff also has some fancy electronics to drive the motor.  Anyway, in this three-way comparison the Pfaff was the clear winner.  The Pfaff IDT feed dog is really positive.  On the single-feed-dog Kenmore, I often had to help feed thick fabric through, while on the Pfaff I could actually pull in the opposite direction and still have the machine pull the fabric through with nice even stitches.  The other interesting thing about this electronic Pfaff, is that although the motor is similar in size (watts) to the other machines, it seems more powerful.  With the Singer 401A I often have to help the needle through the fabric by turning the handwheel when I first start.  With the Pfaff, the machine will start at an amazingly slow speed and does not require assistance from me.  The fact that the Pfaff is happy to sew at slow speeds is very useful to me as well, I think of it as the sewing equivalent to training wheels :-)

If you are looking for a machine, then a Pfaff machine with IDT might be worth looking at.  They start in the 1970s era, which I don't think is "older" by the standards Paul was talking about.  They do have nylon gears in the drivetrain (these can crack or split if they have been oiled), and I hope I never have to troubleshoot the electronic controls (although I took a look at the circuit board and it has pretty simple individual components and no fancy chips).  Given that I will need to sew two 50 sq-m sails, I wasn't satisfied with the 401A, but I hope the Pfaff will be up to the job at a fraction ($150CAD = 100 Euro) of the Sailrite price.

I think it is time to sell some of my sewing machines, before this becomes a habit (although both of my older machines have more than paid for themselves).  Paul if you have any info on the "newer" Pfaff machines I'd be keen to hear it.

Great post, Paul! We're here to share whatever knowledge and expertise we've picked up about our small corner of the sailing world, and your comments on choosing a sewing machine are going to be very helpful to those of us who are new to sailmaking.

Hi all,
Im brand new to the JRA and will be posting a topic of my own soon, but I thought I would address Peters sewing machine question.  Though an inexperienced sail maker, im a relatively experienced sewer and sewing machine collector (addict is more like it).  I thought I would lend my opinion and recommendations about acquiring a sewing machine to make a sail with.  If you are a bargain hunting DIY personality like me, who lives on a tight budget, you might find this info useful.  Others have their own opinions of course.  Everything written here just represents my amatuer ideas, but I thought I would share.  Im happy to learn from others sewing machine experiences as well.  This turned out to be a really long reply, sorry.

If youre trying to acquire a sewing machine, for doing a home sail project, here are a few important things I would keep in mind.
     Some people, and even manufactures, will say all sorts of crazy things when describing their machines such as ‘commercial’ or ‘heavy duty’ etc.  I would not pay any attention to that stuff unless the person/seller really knows machines and most people really dont.  Really, they usually dont.  When it comes to sewing machines, there are two broad categories: industrial sewing machines and domestic sewing machines.
     Within each of those categories there is a huge variety of levels and purposes: upholstery machines, computerized embroidery machines, etc.  The differences are not always what one might think either.  Yes, industrial machines are more powerful, but really the biggest differences between industrial and domestic machines are in speed and durability; they are designed to go FAST (cant emphasize this enough.  they go dangerously fast for amateurs.) and go all day, everyday, for years.  Many modern domestic machines are designed for stuff that is not practical for a sail maker.  They focus on many decorative stitches and things like auto-button hole functions, which are probably not a priority for people here.  (Arne has got the best bang for the buck with his machine, but more on that below.)
     The maximum work a sewing machine is capable of is not just about thickness of total material, which is a factor, but much more is involved: density of the weave of the fabric, the type of material used like nylon, cotton, vinyl, and the condition of your needle, etc.  Several layers of denim is not as rough on a sewing machines as a few layers of a thinner material that is very dense and tight with a bad needle.
Speaking of rough on a sewing machine, just because a machine can go through something, doesnt mean it was designed to do so.  You can damage a sewing machine by trying to over work it.  One problem that is easy to create is throwing your machine out of timing through overwork.  Whats worse, these days doctors visits for sewing machines cost about as much as they do for people (im american).  So recovering a machine from abuse which threw out the timing, or worse a repair of a broken part, is a real pain in the wallet.
     Like I said, im not experienced at making sails, but I do know that when I make my sail, I will NOT try to push the extra thick, layered parts through any of the machines I own.  My guess is that 95% of all the stitching on a sail that is of light to medium weight fabric can be done on a decent domestic sewing machine.  Then the rest can be done by hand while binge watching some netflix thing or thinking about nothing but the beauty of sewing by hand, stitch by lovely stitch, one after the other, until it is done, which comes much more quickly than you might imagine.

Here would be my assessment of possible sewing machines for making a sail.

• Industrial sail making machine: very very heavy and likely very expensive and not practical for a home sailmaker.  NOT RECOMMENDED

• Industrial machine not intended for sailmaking: Likely not good for making a sail unless you know what youre getting and it is also affordable.  But its still gonna be very very heavy.  Also, industrial machines which produce a zigzag stitch, something that seems very useful for sailmaking, are rare and hard to find.  (did i mention scary fast? ;)  NOT RECOMMENDED

• Sailrite machine: this is perfect because its designed for the intended use: home production of a sail.  It will do everything one would need to make a sail.  I would definitely spring for the LSZ-1 which has a zigzag stitch if i were buying a new one.  But these are way to expensive for me.  Unless I find one cheap in a garage sale, I dont have that kinda money.  GET ONE IF YOU CAN.

• Inexpensive, new, domestic machine: these are very cheaply made these days and might break on you.  If it does it will be difficult to fix yourself and expensive for a technician to do it for you.  They are basically disposable.  Most domestic machines are filled with decorative stitches which will not serve any purpose for a home sailmaker.  NOT RECOMMENDED

• Vintage, all-metal, domestic machine:  This is the winner.  Like I mentioned above, there are many difference kinds of domestic machines so youd want to shop a little carefully.  However, at least in America, many of the vintage machines available would do a decent job on most sail projects, and are a real bargain!  I just picked up a singer 237 at a garage sale for $10.  It is a heavy, all metal machine, though not high powered.  It does only a straight and zigzag stitches, and does them very nicely too.  As is, it seems adequate for sailmaker at our level, and would be perfect with a little bit stronger motor.  It can even be put on a foot treadle!  Wouldnt that be nice?  A chart table that has a foot treadle base and a flip up sewing machine hiding underneath so one could sew right on the boat with no power other than beans and rice!  (i think i have a problem.)  BEST BUY!

1. Go and steal Arves pfaff 360!!!  Just kidding, but actually he has the best value in a  machine for making a sail, in my opinion.  Vintage pfaffs are fantastic, durable, powerful machines, with made-in-germany quality pulsing throughout.  There are a few pfaff models I would recommend that are essentially identical for making a sail (They have identical body, motor, and stitching mechanisms).  260, 261, 262 are all super solid, ideal machines and are only different from the equally good 360, 361, 362 models in that these have what is called a “free arm”.  (here is someone selling a pfaff 259 which is a 260 without the pattern cams for making fancy stitches. (   http://fresno.craigslist.org/atq/5759061941.html   ) It only does straight and zigzag.  Perfect!  The pictures are terrible in the posting but those sewing tables can be fantastic.)  Also, im sure  the old 130 model is a winner too, though I dont have personal experience with them.  260s and 360s do have a problem to be aware of which Arve already mentioned.  When they made these machines way back when, they coated them in a petroleum jelly gasoline mixture, which can lock everything up if the machines have been sitting for a while and not used.  The resulting coating just turns to a sorta wax over time.  (BTW, WD40 and the hair dried is a good start but after things are loosened up, id recommend lubricating everything properly with sewing machine oil and grease.  WD40 is not so good for long term lubrication.)
   
2. Berninas are the swiss timepieces of sewing machines.  They are basically the best domestic machines built and have price tags to match.  But if you find a nice vintage one at the right price, it will work great too.  Best bets would be a model 807, 810, 817, 830 or 831.  930s are great too.  830 and 930 machines are collectors items so people have jacked up those prices.  850 and 950 models are dream machines.  Because berninas are the best, they are not as affordable as the pfaffs.
   
3. The random vintage machine can be a steal.  There are many heavy, all-metal machines that are truly bargains out there, and would be reasonable for the 95% sewing-machine-built sail im imagining above.  Look for ones made in Germany, Switzerland, USA, Britain, Italy, Japan, Canada, and a many from Taiwan are good too.  A general rule I would follow is that older is better.
   

Finally, I can help you and you can help me.  Im addicted to sewing machines.  I love to touch them and buy them and clean them and touch them and get them out of free boxes and keep them lubricated and touch them and I even sew with them once in awhile.  But since I should never ever acquire another sewing machine for the rest of my life.  id be happy to help others with their quests and questions about sewing machines they are thinking about acquiring or maybe having a problem with.  It might help me find a way to manage my addiction.  You could tell me how nice an all metal sewing machine feels.

Good luck!
paul

Eric, I see that 'Laurent', on the forum that you mention, puts the Sailrite, Read's and Pfaff 130 as his pick of the portable machines. The Read's is now very rare, but the Pfaff 130 can be found in the USA. Entering "Pfaff industrial sewing machine" into the search box in eBay.co.uk brings up a good range of other models at a range of prices, many of which would be a good buy for amateur sailmaking. This one is worth a close look.

Many thanks for the advice.  I've got my eye on a couple of secondhand machines on eBay which I think tick all the boxes.  

Once I've got a machine the first job will be making a Jester style pramhood.

Peter