A junk rig for Weaverbird

  • 17 Mar 2016 21:54
    Reply # 3888005 on 3858224

    I think that either V69 or V92 would be OK with Clipper Canvas 7.2oz, but V69 is probably thick enough. So long as the needle is an appropriate size (about 21, I think), your machine should cope with V92.

    I suggest you turn in the edge twice, so that there are three thicknesses, and to cover the raw edge; but also add a wide doubler (to add weight and stiffness) that has its outer edge under the turned tabling. I don't think you need rope; webbing would be necessary if you don't add all those layers of cloth, but not otherwise. Sailmakers don't put webbing inside tablings when using cloth intended for sailmaking (do they?). If you need more layers for eyelets, add patches at the batten ends. I've never used triple stitching. The black dabond thread has a long life and retains its strength, and if two lines of stitching are liable to be chafed, so will the third.

  • 17 Mar 2016 20:18
    Reply # 3887872 on 3858224

    David, thanks for confirming the 'soft tan' sailcloth from 'English Seadog' on ebay is indeed the lighter version of Haywards Clipper Canvas. I took a punt on buying 100 sq m of the stuff a few weeks back hoping it would be suitable for making the sail for my Rustler 31. The chap selling the cloth was rather vague as to the spec but did admit it was from Haywards old stock.

    I bought enough to make one sail and have enough spare to make its replacement when needed. I've bought a cone each of black Dabond V69 and V92. Which would you suggest is the better choice for sewing this fabric? Alas I don't have a Sailrite machine but I did manage to buy a solid old Frister & Rossmann 45 zig-zag machine, and, although it's all cast iron and weighs a ton, I'm guessing it might struggle with V92.

    Do I need to reinforce the sail edge with a rope/seatbelt webbing boltrope or is the Clipper Canvas stable enough to just need the wide tabling you mentioned in an earlier post?

    Would you triple stitch the seams or is that overkill?

  • 17 Mar 2016 19:42
    Reply # 3887807 on 3858224
    Very interesting Arne.  230g/sq m works out at slightly under 7 oz, according to the converter I used.  It looks like an excellent alternative to Odyssey/Mustang or Sunbrella.  If Sebastian is using it, it must be good.  My only issue with it is that they only have tasteful colours - I'm looking for purple :-)

    Doesn't Peregrine look wonderful with her black hull?  And the Chinese rig doesn't look at all out of place among those classic gaffers, either.


  • 17 Mar 2016 19:18
    Reply # 3887759 on 3858224
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    A few days ago, Sebastian Hentschel, the German sail maker, sent me a couple of photos of junks he has made sails for, like this for his Peregrine  (now with black topsides!).

    He uses a woven tarpaulin called Weathermax. It is said to hold the colour as well as acryl, but with the strength of polyester. At 230g/m2 (Weathermax LT) and 270g/m2 (Weathermax 80) these come without coating on any side.

    I guess they are over the top for the little sail of Weaverbird, but I anyway think it looks like an interesting material for slightly bigger junk sails.

    Two links:

    Wethermax 80

    http://www.leesailcovers.com/weathermax80/

    Wethermax source with, with distributors in different countries.

    http://www.safetycomponents.com/
    WeatherMAX/Distributors/index.php?page=GreatBritain

    Cheers, Arne

     

    Last modified: 17 Mar 2016 19:24 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 17 Mar 2016 15:33
    Reply # 3887391 on 3858224

    The Tyvek source I found was incredibly cheap, compared with woven cloth. That wasn't the issue, which was that I wasn't at all impressed with Tyvek as a sailmaking material, unless for a disposable, experimental sail.

    Last modified: 17 Mar 2016 15:34 | Anonymous member
  • 17 Mar 2016 13:55
    Reply # 3887258 on 3858224

    David,

    there are quite a few competitors to Tyvek in the Building Membrane market, most will be less expensive.

    It would be interesting to know what grade other Tyvek sail maker use.

    I did hear that putting it through the washing machine breaks down the stiffness, and would assume even if not done, it would soon get softer once used for a sail.

    Best of luck.

  • 17 Mar 2016 13:41
    Reply # 3887210 on 3858224

    I have some sailcloth on order. "EnglishSeadog", on Ebay, has the remains of the stock of Hayward's Clipper Canvas, and I've bought plenty of tan-coloured 7.2oz/sq yd, 170 cm wide, at £5.89 sq m.  That's much less expensive than it used to be when Kayospruce were carrying the stock, and it's excellent cloth, with a soft feel, which is good for a cruising junk rig.

  • 16 Mar 2016 16:44
    Reply # 3884826 on 3876587
    David Tyler wrote:

    I've ordered a mixed pack of A4 sheets of Tyvek from Amazon - 55gm and 75gm "paper" and 43gm "fabric", to get a better idea of the feel of each type.

    I've just received these samples, and I'm glad I ordered them. The 43gm fabric-like tyvek is rather weak and easily torn - I'm glad I didn't order a roll of it! The 55gm and 75gm paper-like Tyvek is tough and difficult to tear, but is like heavily coated paper in that it is quite stiff, and very noisy when handled. I'm not at all sure I want a sail made from it, but I guess it's not too dissimilar to cruising sailcloth when new, in that respect. When creased up, it stays creased.

    More research required.

    Last modified: 16 Mar 2016 16:49 | Anonymous member
  • 16 Mar 2016 16:40
    Reply # 3884824 on 3858224
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    All well, then.
    I admit that I tend to pile on as much sail as possible, as long as I can hoist and sheet it. When rigging Johanna, back in 2002, I probably touched my limits: To hoist her 48sqm sail, I had to use the winch for the last two panels. Later I fitted an electric winch handle (which I have kept). After first having sailed her for two summers with the BR, I knew her rudder was very powerful, so I gambled and gave her 5.8m long battens (Chord=5.71m), which meant that the sail’s chord was 84% the length of the waterline. Johanna still behaved quite well, and could carry the same sail area, or one panel more, downwind, compared to when close-hauled.

    Recently, when I designed the rig for my IF, Ingeborg, my hearth wanted a 40sqm sail, but my head vetoed against it, so I landed on 35sqm. The idea is to be able to hoist sail without needing a halyard winch. With the battens being 4.9m, the chord/wll=80%, so I hope Ingeborg will steer well enough, downwind.

    When I spotted David’s sailplan for Weaverbird, I noticed that she appeared to have a very good rudder, and that was my reason for thinking she could carry more sail without needing a longer mast. I guess my attitude is... there is no substitute for square-meters, downwind... and I am too one-eyed to think that other people may see it differently...

    Anyway, good luck with your project, David!

    Arne.

     

    Last modified: 16 Mar 2016 16:41 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 16 Mar 2016 13:05
    Reply # 3884351 on 3858224

    Gentlemen

    I apologise for my message. It was an impulsive translation of a French say « deux crocodiles dans un marigot ». (there is not enough place in that pond for two crocodiles) It is definitively non-personal but is a reference to the way an exchange may become abrupt between two very very experienced persons.

    Sorry

    Eric

       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

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