New rig for Cool Change

  • 30 Jan 2016 12:14
    Reply # 3790705 on 3778036
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Steve,

    have you sailed the TS16 with the original rig, yet? If it is not too much hassle, and if you don't have access to a sister boat, I suggest you get in some sailing with her present Bermuda rig. This gives you a reference, so that when you fit and go sailing with the JR, you will better know what the new rig does to the boat.

    The test-sailing in original state will also sort out issues discussed here, such as ballast and leeboards. No need to fix what is good...

    Arne

    Last modified: 30 Jan 2016 12:18 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 30 Jan 2016 00:27
    Reply # 3790026 on 3778036
    Deleted user

    Okay, I think I have a bit of a plan coming together.

    I will start this winter with the junk rig mod but leaving everything else as is. Next year after getting used to the junk rig and ironing out any minor issues there I'll work on the other things. I'm not going to want to be too adventurous with cruising until I know more about how the boat handles now, and with the JR. This is a sound boat and is worth keeping, so I have time to work out what I really want to do with it.

    Loving the creative thinking here on this forum though. Less negative vibe here than some other places.

  • 30 Jan 2016 00:20
    Reply # 3790025 on 3778036
    Deleted user

    I like the idea of modifying my boat as discussed, but I need to make sure that I place everything in the correct places. How do I make sure tha the ballast tank and leeboard (or bilge boards) are placed correctly? I'm not a boat designer so I will need to make sure I know what I am doing.

  • 30 Jan 2016 00:08
    Reply # 3790021 on 3788600
    Deleted user
    David Tyler wrote:

    Yes, leeboards or bilgeboards will be fine for lateral resistance, but if you want to put some weight down low you'll need a heavy stub keel in addition, just as for the centreboard. I like my bilgeboards, for more space in the cabin plus less trouble due to jamming and fouling.


    Also, one issue with centreboard boats is the problem of fast entry of water in a knockdown. I could install a water balast tank in place of the centreboard trunk, under the existing floor, which would give me the ballast I need, plus the convenience of a kick-up leeboard. It would make the TS16 a very different boat, but what the heck!
  • 29 Jan 2016 05:48
    Reply # 3788600 on 3778036

    Yes, leeboards or bilgeboards will be fine for lateral resistance, but if you want to put some weight down low you'll need a heavy stub keel in addition, just as for the centreboard. I like my bilgeboards, for more space in the cabin plus less trouble due to jamming and fouling.

  • 29 Jan 2016 00:34
    Reply # 3788336 on 3787951
    Deleted user
    David Tyler wrote:

    The TS16 has a very similar hull form to the British Wayfarer dinghy, in which I was teaching kids to sail, half a century ago. It has a forgiving manner, and was difficult to capsize, except by carrying too much sail, too high up. This problem is going to disappear under a low aspect ratio junk rig, with its ease of reefing and furling. However, I might rig the halyard as a 2:1 purchase, with falls coming down on each side and back to a position where they can be easily reached, even if you are hiking out.

    To make the TS16 a more able offshore cruiser, I'd want to take steps to increase the downflooding angle and to prevent water from coming below. I'd decrease the cockpit volume considerably, by widening the side decks, adding a stern deck, adding a sill at deck level by bonding in the bottom washboard and raising the cockpit sole so it was self-draining. To deck over the cockpit entirely would be going too far, and would make steering uncomfortable. 

    I see that the TS16 could be built with either a centreboard, or bilge keels, or fin keel. I'd veer towards ballasted low aspect ratio bilge keels, I think. Easier beaching than with a fin, and fewer problems with loss of control downwind. Taking out the centreboard case would eliminate the leakage problem, and give more usable cabin space.

    What about a leeboard?
  • 28 Jan 2016 20:17
    Reply # 3787963 on 3778036
    Steve, David's mention of the Wayfarer dinghy has reminded me about Frank and Margaret Dyes' voyages in one, from Scotland to Iceland and back and from Scotland to Norway, in the course of which they rode out a severe gale. They wrote a book about it: "Ocean Crossing Wayfarer". I recommend this as an illustration of what can be accomplished in a 16 footer.
  • 28 Jan 2016 20:05
    Reply # 3787951 on 3778036

    The TS16 has a very similar hull form to the British Wayfarer dinghy, in which I was teaching kids to sail, half a century ago. It has a forgiving manner, and was difficult to capsize, except by carrying too much sail, too high up. This problem is going to disappear under a low aspect ratio junk rig, with its ease of reefing and furling. However, I might rig the halyard as a 2:1 purchase, with falls coming down on each side and back to a position where they can be easily reached, even if you are hiking out.

    To make the TS16 a more able offshore cruiser, I'd want to take steps to increase the downflooding angle and to prevent water from coming below. I'd decrease the cockpit volume considerably, by widening the side decks, adding a stern deck, adding a sill at deck level by bonding in the bottom washboard and raising the cockpit sole so it was self-draining. To deck over the cockpit entirely would be going too far, and would make steering uncomfortable. 

    I see that the TS16 could be built with either a centreboard, or bilge keels, or fin keel. I'd veer towards ballasted low aspect ratio bilge keels, I think. Easier beaching than with a fin, and fewer problems with loss of control downwind. Taking out the centreboard case would eliminate the leakage problem, and give more usable cabin space.

  • 28 Jan 2016 15:14
    Reply # 3787306 on 3778036
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Woops, Steve,

    sorry if I sounded as if patronising you  -  you obviously have been thoroughly checked out on unballasted boats.

    I still think it is a good idea to add that 100kg keel shoe, in particular if you are to sail her a lot without a crew. My 6.5m/740kg Frøken Sørensen has no ballast. Even with that ‘big’ boat, I need to reef earlier when alone than with a crew. That ballast shoe you suggested for your boat will do the job of a heavy bloke standing on the keel when you are down on 90°. I bet that lump of lead will make her self-righten quickly.

    Arne

    PS: Too bad I am the only one to answer you  -  I surely don’t want to have monopoly on this thread!

     

  • 28 Jan 2016 02:48
    Reply # 3786207 on 3785353
    Deleted user
    Arne Kverneland wrote:

    Well, Steve,

    actually I think it is possible to get too focused on safety. One may end up kicking dust along the beaches, instead of sailing ;-).

    Here are my comments to your three problem points:

    1.      I suggest you take it a bit easy the first season. Get the rig and boat operational and sail her in protected waters at first.  The flotation you need then, just to avoid that the boat sinks if filled with water, is as much as the ballast plus 100 kg. Remember, the boat is of wood so will in itself provide about its own weight in buoyancy.

    2.      Yes, a ballast shoe (start with 100kg) should improve things, but don’t overdo it.

    3.      With the ballast shoe and with Styrofoam pads up beneath the side decks etc, it is unlikely that you will do a 180. A line to secure the cb in fully down, is a good thing to have. Try some capsize drills on a calm day, with an assistance boat at hand. Most probably, you will, together with the fixed ballast and locked-down cb, be able to recover her from a 90° position

    Remember, the main safety factors in dinghies like yours, and my Frøken Sørensen lie in the way we handle them ( just as with driving motorcycles). As I said to begin with, take it a bit easy, at first.

    Here are the safety rules I use for handling my Frøken Sørensen:

    ·         Stay sober and focused.

    ·         Cleat the sheet to a quick-release jam- or clamcleat. The cleat must be carefully positioned to let you release the sheet from any awkward angle. This is important!

    ·         Make a habit of holding the tiller and the (cleated) sheet in the same hand.

    ·         Keep the tail of the sheet in a heap aft of you on the cockpit floor, so it is free to run out.

    ·         In strong wind gusts, releasing the sheet has first priority. That normally does the trick, even if you managed to ship quite some water. Trying to head up is a too slow method on dinghies. Practice this quick sheet release, just as motorcyclist practice braking. You will soon see that you don’t need to release the sheet very far to depower the sail. This is one reason why I only use a 3-part sheet  -  quick depowering of the sail.

    ·         Don’t hand the tiller and sheet over to a newbie in gusty winds. Remember also that  even experienced sailors, coming from heavy keelboats, may not have the sheet-release reflex in their spine  -  they are mostly used to just round up a little in gusts.

    ·         When I got my dinghy, Broremann, I got into the habit of using a flotation gear, just a simple foam sailor’s vest. I would never use an inflatable gear, since they need regular maintenance and one’s movements will be very restricted once they inflate.

    Time to stop worrying and get started  -  good luck!

    Arne

     

    Thanks Arne. I learned to sail on a catamaran then a sailing kayak then an 11 ft dinghy with a leg mutton sprit. I think I know a thing or two about avoiding a capsize in a gust.

    Like many fields of life it pays to ask a wide range of people about a.new activity. In this case I think the best advice is treat my new boat as an open dinghy when it comes to.sailing strategy. Then any additional benefits of the cabin and balast.will be a bonus. I think the reason some people get into trouble in boats like the TS16 is that they approach the sailing like its a mini cruiser and get lazy.

    I am still learnimg to sail this boat but most of the learning is to deal with  the bm rig not the boat.


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