North Atlantic 29 Plans out there? (E.g. Teleport)

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  • 28 Nov 2015 17:08
    Reply # 3664861 on 3632542
    Deleted user
    That is very interesting, Jim. My own boat is also 30' over the deck.  As you will see the pics and illo on my profile, she has a four-foot bowsprit, and about 514 square feet of sail, with six percent camber, on a displacement of about 10, 000 pounds.  I have only had a few days laying around with the rig, in winds of perhaps 12 knots true, maximum.  Because my boat already had a bowsprit, and came with a cruising-chuts of 260 square feet (flat) area, I hope to use that chute for offwind and downwind work in really light conditions.  After all, in really light conditions, there is no objection to bit of deck work, and one is happy to play around.  After all, there is a great pleasure in getting a boat to make reasonable progress in conditions where just about all boats (and certainly bermudan-rigged boats) are under engine.  But what about upwind sail in really light conditions?  I cannot speak with any authority at all on this matter, as I have never done.  But I can't help thinking that a small,very light, loose-luffed sail would turbo-charge the junk sail upwind in very light conditions.  It certainly seemed to work for Ming Ming 1.  I like the idea of a junk-rigged boat out-footing a bermudan-rigged boat of the same size in very light conditions, after all - and ultimately, sail area is power! 
  • 25 Nov 2015 10:13
    Reply # 3659477 on 3632542

    Th ghoster I had made for Teleport/Marco Polo was of light cloth and a full shape. It had a wire luff rope. I used it infrequently and only in winds under ten knots. However, it was quite effective. I made a light whisker pole from aluminum tubing with snap hooks on the ends. The sail improved windward performance and added noticeable speed. It was especially effective down wind, set wing & wong. I enjoyed wafting past other boats of the same length with their spinnakers set. Of course, when tacking we needed a fore-deck hand to bring the clew around.

  • 24 Nov 2015 17:55
    Reply # 3658443 on 3632542
    Deleted user
    The drawings in the Jock archive for the NA 29 give a displacement of 9300lbs and iron ballast of 4200lbs.  The mainsail is 429 sq. ft.  Perhaps more interestingly, a ghoster (which looks like a flattish upwind sail) is in the original drawing at 210 sq. ft. 
  • 22 Nov 2015 13:23
    Reply # 3653644 on 3632542

    I agree. An experienced marine draughtsman should be able to draw a close approximation to the original  boat from the information available. Likewise the mast, boom, yard and battens using Practical Junk Rig. The plans provided for two kinds of construction. FRP, about which I remember nothing, and cold moulding. Five layers of 1/8" mahogany veneer for the hull. Four layers for the coach roof. I went to 6 layers of Western Red Cedar for the hull, 5 for the coach roof. Cedar because of cost and ease of construction. I got an okay from Meade Gougeon on the conversion. The turn of the bilge proved to be very difficult. In spite of being softer and steaming and bending the veneers over my knee, I discovered later there was a little spring-back here and there to form mini-cavities. These fill with water....  I don't think it meant much in terms of strength but in the long run.....deterioration. There has to be a solution. An engineer friend of mine suggested "vacuum grouting". Or, aggressive rebuilding the affected area with FRP/epoxy.

    I would not recommend cold molding if another way can be found. It was very labour intensive.

    It seems to me it would have been easier to build strip planking. Bill Dixon described how they build their custom yachts now. The hull is built with tongue-and-groove wood strips using a special join design. The pieces sort of snap together, (With epoxy, of course.) They smooth the surface and cover with a very thick layer of fiberglass, inside as well. So what you get is an FRP/wood/epoxy sandwich. The wood has become the core.

  • 22 Nov 2015 12:12
    Reply # 3653586 on 3632542
    Deleted user

    I made a model of the NA29 in Delftship a while ago, from a set of body plan lines I found. The image was not very high res, but the drawings in Jocks's archive contained enough station sections and a good profile to allow me to refine it a little.

    I'm sure a better draughtsman than I could turn that information into a pretty close copy of the original.

    Chris

    Last modified: 22 Nov 2015 12:15 | Deleted user
  • 14 Nov 2015 01:31
    Reply # 3632795 on 3632677
    Arne Kverneland wrote:

    Frankly I think this is a better sail-plan than the original. The reason for such a bold statement is that Jim D was complaining about too much twist in his (flat) sail.

    I agree, the original sail had too much twist when reefed. I would be interested to see your drawings with numbers.
  • 14 Nov 2015 01:25
    Reply # 3632793 on 3632542

    Thanks, Annie, for the link. It was rather like finding a long lost family album to pour over. I lived with those drawings for 12 years. As it is, it would be difficult to build one without lines drawings and tables of offsets.

    I will of course assume they are copyright protected. If I find my set I will see that Bill Dixon gets them or a digitized copy. Then he can sell them to whomever wants them and everybody will be satisfied.

    I met Bill Dixon at his office in 1999, with Robin Blain, who had kindly put me up for a week. He remembered clearly packing my drawings for mailing to Canada. When they arrived, I laid the package on my living room coffee table and stared at it for half an hour before I had the courage to open it up, for fear of the magnitude of the task ahead of me. As it turned out, I had reason to fear.....

    Robin and I also visited the Kensington Science museum in London to look at the Maze Collection of junk models. I felt I was on a scared pilgrimage!

    Last modified: 14 Nov 2015 01:44 | Anonymous member
  • 13 Nov 2015 22:45
    Reply # 3632677 on 3632542
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Jim,

    if you look up in the special anniversary edition of the JRA Mag, page 26, you will find my suggested rig for Jim Dietz's boat, back in 1995. Frankly I think this is a better sailplan than the original. The reason for such a bold statement is that Jim D was complaining about too much twist in his (flat) sail. That, and my own experience with my Malerna's sail (also with too big top panels), lead me into the designing of the transition panel (no. 3 from top)  to make a sail with all panels of about equal area (and thus with better twist control). I could probably find that design with numbers, for you, if you want it.

    Arne
    Last modified: 13 Nov 2015 22:46 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 13 Nov 2015 21:12
    Reply # 3632603 on 3632542
    Jim, have a look here.  I don't know if it's the full set of plans or not and don't really have the time to look myself.  Please note Chris's comments re copyright.  Maybe you can help, if you've been in contact with Dixon.
  • 13 Nov 2015 20:15
    Message # 3632542

    I have had a couple of inquiries from people who want to acquire a set of plans for the North Atlantic 29 by Angus Primrose and Blondie Hasler.  My set is buried the deep and dark recesses of rental storage. One day.....

    Meanwhile, I contacted the company (Dixon Yacht Design) that has Primrose's plans and they report thy have been lost.

    I am wondering if there is anyone out there who have a set and could let us know. naturally, a new builder would have to pay a fee for permission to use them.

    One fellow who's name I have now forgotten thinks they were drawn for Blondie Hasler himself, as his "last boat".

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