Morgan 382 conversion help

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  • 10 Apr 2014 23:02
    Reply # 1535553 on 1535467
    Ben Bruce wrote:The sail area you stated of around 800sq ft is based on improving light air performance, since reefing is so easliy done?
    Most junkies would say to put on as much sail area as you conveniently can, because reefing is easy. You may not achieve as much as 800 sq ft, though, but it's something to aim for in the design. Two sails of 350 sq ft would be easy to use and would perhaps be my choice for voyaging to wild places; two sails of 400 sq ft for gentler coastal cruising in less windy areas.
  • 10 Apr 2014 22:58
    Reply # 1535551 on 1535464
    Ben Bruce wrote:Thank you for the response and information.

    Does anyone know the percentage or minimum depth of bury for the foremast? How do I determine if I have enough?

    I am assuming the batten parrels allow you to adjust the sail forward or aft a little and adjust the CE of the sail as needed, as long as you have room between the sails for the sheets. Is there a recommended percentage or stand off between  the leech of the foresail and the luff of the Mainsail as a guide to allow room for balancing the sail plan as needed?

    Will a flat sail of equal area and shape......perform the exact same as a cambered sail of equal area and shape.....in relation to balance? The reason I ask is if I build my masts and step them I could build cheap temporary prototype flat sails from cheap material to check balance, design, etc. then construct the high quality cambered sails after.

    In practice, are most conversions able to balance the sail plan reasonably well with little trouble with the current design process, or is it an ongoing problem?


    You're going to need a copy of Practical Junk Rig to answer many of the questions you're going to come up with. There isn't really any alternative but to get stuck into working out the position of the rig using all the info given in the book. It's not hard.

    Bury should be 10% of mast length.

    I would give a cambered sail a little more lead than a flat sail. Just a few %. This is a very inexact science anyway, and even naval architects differ widely on how much lead any given boat and rig should have. 

    I think building a sail of cheap material is wasted effort, if you then intend to build a "good" one after. There isn't any major problem with getting good balance, and yes, there is a little adjustability available by setting the foresail further forward, the after sail further aft.
  • 10 Apr 2014 22:13
    Reply # 1535523 on 1535021
    Deleted user
    Hi Ben. Welcome.

    As Webmaster I'll leave our more techie members to answer your questions. I'll just say that as someone who has had a 32 ft schooner with flat sails and now one 39 ft with cambered, both with shorter fore masts, there is absolutely no difference in balancing the rig, not only by sheet adjustments but by reefing. Equal size sails would probably simplify balancing.

    I am sure that David's 800 sq ft took into account increasing the area of the rig for the reason that you spotted. I did the same on the 39 footer. I'm sure he'll get back to you soon.

    Well done on pasting your image into your post. This isn't recommended, as the system always seems to cut some of the image off. That's why this forum has an 'Illustrations' album attached - see the menu on the left. You could include the illustration there if you want members to see the whole thing.

    Right forum to post in too, and congratulations on including a table! I think I could count the number of members who have needed to do that, have tried and have been successful on no more than two hands - even our self-admitted technophobe Chairman :-)


    Last modified: 10 Apr 2014 22:26 | Deleted user
  • 10 Apr 2014 20:33
    Reply # 1535467 on 1535021
    Deleted user
    The sail area you stated of around 800sq ft is based on improving light air performance, since reefing is so easliy done?
  • 10 Apr 2014 20:30
    Reply # 1535464 on 1535021
    Deleted user
    Thank you for the response and information.

    Does anyone know the percentage or minimum depth of bury for the foremast? How do I determine if I have enough?

    I am assuming the batten parrels allow you to adjust the sail forward or aft a little and adjust the CE of the sail as needed, as long as you have room between the sails for the sheets. Is there a recommended percentage or stand off between  the leech of the foresail and the luff of the Mainsail as a guide to allow room for balancing the sail plan as needed?

    Will a flat sail of equal area and shape......perform the exact same as a cambered sail of equal area and shape.....in relation to balance? The reason I ask is if I build my masts and step them I could build cheap temporary prototype flat sails from cheap material to check balance, design, etc. then construct the high quality cambered sails after.

    In practice, are most conversions able to balance the sail plan reasonably well with little trouble with the current design process, or is it an ongoing problem?


  • 10 Apr 2014 15:20
    Reply # 1535252 on 1535021
    Hi Ben,
    When the two sails are of equal size, the mast positions are a little further aft than with the PJR recommended proportion of 33/67% fore/main areas. Thus, the after mast is somewhere about 60% of the waterline aft, and is likely to go in the position you need, just forward of the galley. Bear in mind that it can be offset a little from the centreline, to ease passage around it. The foremast is likely to go a little aft of the watertight bulkhead at the forward end of the waterline, so that will be convenient, too. I favour two equal size sails, where practicable, for convenience when sailmaking, carrying spare battens, and running wing and wing.

    5.5oz/sq yd sailcloth is a bit too light for this size of boat and sail. I'd recommend 7 to 8 oz/sq yd. My experience of the light weights of Dacron cloth is that they don't have much UV resistance, so need to be kept covered when not in use ( unless there's still any Haywards "Sunwing" cloth still on the market - that's UV-protected). I would say that the best cloth for your sails would be Mustang/Top Gun 9 - if you get 100 yards from Rochford Supply, it will cost you $9 a yard, and you'd use most of it, taking into account a finished sail area of about 800 sq ft, plus pockets, doublers and tablings; and then sail covers, mast coats, cockpit awning, etc.
  • 10 Apr 2014 03:47
    Reply # 1535026 on 1535021
    Deleted user
    The port side salon and table just forward of the galley is being converted to a full time, amidships double berth so the access to the salon seat just forward of the galley is not an issue.
  • 10 Apr 2014 03:41
    Reply # 1535025 on 1535021
    Deleted user
    specs:
    Hull Type:  Fin with rudder on skeg Rig Type:  Masthead Sloop
    LOA:  38.33' / 11.68m LWL:  30.50' / 9.30m
    Beam:  12.00' / 3.66m Listed SA:  667 ft2 / 61.96 m2
    Draft (max.)  5.00' / 1.52m Draft (min.)  
    Disp.  17000 lbs./ 7711 kgs. Ballast:  6800 lbs. / 3084 kgs.
    SA/Disp.:  16.20 Bal./Disp.:  39.99% Disp./Len.:  267.49
    Designer:  Ted Brewer/Jack Corey
    Morgan 382 drawing on sailboatdata.com
    I am hoping to get the aft mast location at the forward inboard corner of the galley/salon area. The V-berth area will be gear storage etc. so the mast placement vs interior layout isn't so critical.

    Thanks again in advance for any input.

    Last modified: 10 Apr 2014 15:00 | Anonymous member
  • 10 Apr 2014 03:19
    Message # 1535021
    Deleted user
    I am not sure if this is the proper place for this post, so please advise...thanks!

    I am working hard on a Morgan 382 conversion to junk rig. I am not rich....and the sailboat is on the hard. I need to get the boat back in the water and live aboard as soon as possible.

    From the research I have done.....I can see that there are many people on the site that are very knowledgeable in the spar/sail design area. I would like to ask for help getting the correct specs for my Morgan 382 spars. I want to build a wooden hollow stave mast of the birds mouth style. I plan on using Doug Fir.

    The sail plan I have in mind is a schooner rig with sails close to the same size. I don't know if there is an advantage to having the sails the same size or the foresail slightly smaller.

    The sailboat will be used for bare bones cruising, offshore in remote areas. I lean towards robust construction that is worry free, without being ridiculous.

    I would love to take my time, understand every detail of the design process, etc. but I just don't have the resources. That time is better used working and creating income to buy materials, pay boat yard fees,and and working on the boat. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.


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