Designs for small junk-rigged cruising yachts

  • 11 Jan 2014 07:04
    Reply # 1472628 on 1472430
    Deleted user
    Arne Kverneland wrote:David,

    is there a formula for this STIX number which will let an ordinary human calculate the number for his or her boat, or does one need a computer program to work it out?

    Arne

    Hi Arne

    I know for sure that a spreadsheet exists, but i can put a hand on it. I am currently waiting for my job the latest version of all CE ISO norms concerning small recreational boats. In there are the 5 norms concerning stability that is ISO 12217. As soon as I receive it, I will let you know. The calculation itself is quite complex and require a lot of infos, some of them could only be provided by the boat designer or require you to reverse engineering your boat and have access to a hydrostatic program.

    Antoine
    Last modified: 11 Jan 2014 07:06 | Deleted user
  • 10 Jan 2014 22:22
    Reply # 1472478 on 1470232
    There is no doubt that a small boat will be more susceptible to breaking crests than a larger boat, though I think the advantages of the "junk-style hull", ie shallow draft, firm bilges and good buoyancy still apply.  In 1974 I was caught in an ex-tropical cyclone in the Tasman Sea for 8 days in a lightly ballasted, converted navy whaler.  I just lay ahull and hid in the cabin while the boat surfed sideways.  We were knocked down several times but never capsized.  Two deep-keeled, heavy ballasted 35 foot yachts nearby were capsized and one lost its mast.  I had structural damage but that was because my boat was very elderly and really shouldn't have been out there.

    Some small voyagers such as Trekka do have deep keels, as did Acrohc, the 11ft 6 inch Australian yacht that holds the record for the smallest vessel to circumnavigate, but others, such as Nova Espero were shallow, as were some of Sven Lundin's Bris designs, Ming Ming etc.  I am quite certain these shallow-draft boats would get knocked down more easily but if they are strongly built, with watertight hatches, they should just slip sideways and pop back up.  I carry a series drogue these days, though I have no experience with it.  Should I ever feel I am at risk of being overwhelmed I'll deploy it with its bridle off the stern.  And if I ever build another voyaging boat (unlikely) I would seriously consider a junk-style design.
  • 10 Jan 2014 21:17
    Reply # 1472430 on 1470232
    Anonymous member (Administrator)
    David,

    is there a formula for this STIX number which will let an ordinary human calculate the number for his or her boat, or does one need a computer program to work it out?

    Arne
    Last modified: 10 Jan 2014 21:20 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 10 Jan 2014 18:39
    Reply # 1472293 on 1470232
    Deleted user
    David, just to spur discussion, Sopranino etc may have had deep keels, but a Corribee, such as Mingming has bilge keels and a draught of about 2ft 6in as has the Kingfisher 20, such as the one Pete Hill sailed across the Atlantic. I would suggest that these, for their size, are just as oceanworthy.
  • 09 Jan 2014 23:47
    Reply # 1471829 on 1470232
    I would advise anyone thinking of a small ocean or offshore cruiser to quiz the designer about the STIX number (stability index).
    From the RORC website:

      STIX or IRC STIX is a number representing the perceived 'seaworthiness' of the design, with a higher value reflecting a more 'seaworthy' boat.

    Each boat's STIX  is calculated in accordance with ISO 12217 Part 2 by the combination of factors related to dynamic stability, inversion recovery, knockdown recovery, displacement-length, beam-displacement, wind moment and downflooding.


    Tystie's STIX is 33.23, and the minimum for category A, "ocean", is 32. The minimum for category B, "offshore", is 23, and many small boats should be able to reach this, where they would be struggling to reach 32.

  • 09 Jan 2014 19:45
    Reply # 1471613 on 1471281
    Graham Cox wrote:I've always believed that deep drafted, long keel hulls are the most seaworthy, but am beginning to question my assumptions, especially for junk-rigged vessels.  Perhaps a shallow-draft hull with high form stability (firm bilges), retractable board and rudder but high freeboard, maybe even with the coachroof taken right out to the gunwhales, giving tremendous reserve bouyancy, provides a different kind of stability, plus the ability to slip sideways from breaking crests.  I am not talking about boats to win races here, just indulging in a purely speculative rumination about seaworthiness.  The traditional junk hull design is an excellent example of this.
    I agree. Tystie is of this type, and is ocean-worthy.I feel safer in big seas than I would in a boat that had a deep keel to trip over. However, I believe that there is a lower limit of size for this approach. I don't know where that limit is, but I think it's only a little below Tystie's size. The successful and very small ocean-going boats have all had a relatively deep draught, haven't they? - Sopranino, Trekka etc?
  • 09 Jan 2014 07:01
    Reply # 1471281 on 1470232
    I've always believed that deep drafted, long keel hulls are the most seaworthy, but am beginning to question my assumptions, especially for junk-rigged vessels.  Perhaps a shallow-draft hull with high form stability (firm bilges), retractable board and rudder but high freeboard, maybe even with the coachroof taken right out to the gunwhales, giving tremendous reserve bouyancy, provides a different kind of stability, plus the ability to slip sideways from breaking crests.  I am not talking about boats to win races here, just indulging in a purely speculative rumination about seaworthiness.  The traditional junk hull design is an excellent example of this.
    Last modified: 09 Jan 2014 13:28 | Deleted user
  • 08 Jan 2014 13:41
    Reply # 1470668 on 1470232
    Deleted user
    They made a movie of The Riddle of the Sands, starring Michael York, its on youtube in its entirety. Good sailing movie.

    [Webmaster edit: I've left Gary's post here, but have copied it to the 'Seen any good films lately' thread in the Yacht Club Bar. I've also put Graham's reply there.]
    Last modified: 09 Jan 2014 13:27 | Deleted user
  • 08 Jan 2014 05:40
    Reply # 1470533 on 1470232
    Gary, I agree with you about that jib.  Kind of defeats the purpose of having junk rig, though I understand it is only intended to be used for very light drifting conditions.  Still too much bother.  I'd turbo charge the junk sail instead, make it a bit bigger and give it some camber.  The mast is in a tabernacle and can be lowered, with a watertight bulkhead aft of the mast.  I like the watertight bulkhead and can see that for some cruising grounds the tabernacle would be useful, though I probably wouldn't bother as I am not so keen on poking up inland waterways where it would come in handy to pass under fixed bridges etc. 

    Which brings me to Arne's comments.  When I am sailing close inshore I often wish Arion was a faster, more weatherly boat, but once I am well away from the land I am happy to have such a strong, docile boat.  I don't care if it takes me a bit longer to get there.  The Tasman 24 was intended for ocean cruising, but with the ability to tuck into shallow waters too.  It all depends on what one wants to do with a boat.

    I like sharpies, however, and would happily choose one if I was planning to cruise predominantly in shallow waters.  I am currently re-reading The Riddle of the Sands and can see the charm of such a boat for cruises of that type.  I am not too worried about standing headroom.  Comfortable sitting headroom is ok with me, as long as you can sit at the galley and chart table as well as the saloon.  I can see myself in a little sharpie with tandem centreboards.  The east coast of Australia has several waterways that would suit this type of craft well.  I built Arion for ocean sailing and still  enjoy the freedom and adventure of the open sea, though my increasingly fragile health suggests that the time is coming when an inshore boat would suit me better.  Just as long as it has a cambered junk sail!
  • 08 Jan 2014 00:40
    Reply # 1470390 on 1470232
    Deleted user
    but, but..  since this is for live aboard cruising, on the drawing board she needs to start off as a caravan. Then make the mods to make her sail ok. (Or make no mods and call her a sharpie :)) Cruisers spend 90%+ at anchor or in a marina, only a tiny bit actually sailing, so standing headroom is obligatory.
       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

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